Runs a 27:10 then Solinksy rocks his shit at Stanford? I would have laughed my ass off. Already funny enough that he got his ass kicked by a badass hard working runner who doesn't f***ing care about pollen and shit and just f***ing runs against good competition. Also very happy Chelenga beat him too. Rupp sucks.
solinsky would not have run sub 27:20 if rupp was not in the race.
youreanidiot wrote:
solinsky would not have run sub 27:20 if rupp was not in the race.
And Rupp would not have run 27:10 if Chelanga, Solinsky, and that other guy were in the race.
As someone who was at the meet I'm going to say both of these statements are absolutely true:
solinsky would not have run sub 27:20 if rupp was not in the race.
And Rupp would not have run 27:10 if Chelanga, Solinsky, and that other guy were in the race.
rupp obviously could have set the record without those other 3...if he was paced for 6.5k . It would have been easier to run 3.5, knowing you are going to win and going for the record without people drafting. Having people draft off of you is taxing.
thetruthofthematter wrote:
youreanidiot wrote:solinsky would not have run sub 27:20 if rupp was not in the race.
And Rupp would not have run 27:10 if Chelanga, Solinsky, and that other guy were in the race.
Are you saying he would have run faster because I think he would have, or are you saying having 3 guys sit of you but not help and then blow by at the end helps you run fast?
If it's the latter you definitely have only been in the back of any competitive race. And even if you've never experienced it you've surely seen enough races where someone leading the race and hitting a strong pace locks up when people blast by. Had they not gotten blasted they could have continued on their pace, or closer to it, or maybe had a strong close.
Rupp has proven he can crush it in going solo. He ran 28:15 as a teenager in the same manner as last night, sans the 3 cherry pickers, and his splits were 14:17-13:58.
Having guys sit on you or catching you is mentally, and as a result, physically stressing. On the flip side being the one in puirsuit or cherry picking can be exhilarating.
That's why Ritz closed the door so hard on Bekele last year in his AR. Bekele was tired from being out there working hard alone and Ritz was feeling awesome blasting by people and reeling him in. Any competitive runner has experienced both aspects of this.
And I don't mean "cherry pickers" as a derogatory remark about the other runners, they can do as they wish. I'm sure Rupp would have loved to be in the position to cherry pick last night but he pulled the card of the work horse and no one wanted to offer any assistance. So be it.
Perspectivation wrote:
Had they not gotten blasted they could have continued on their pace, or closer to it, or maybe had a strong close.
Rupp did do this, though. His last 800 was approximately 2:07, and the 800 before that (and most the race) was approximately 2:11.
In addition, Solinsky's the only one who blasted him. He was in a good race with Chelanga and Salel until the last 100 meters or so. There's really no good reason to think Rupp could have run any faster.
And your Bekele/Ritz example doesn't really make sense. Nobody blasted by Bekele, so by your logic, Bekele should have had his strongest close, not having people close in on him.
Ritz was gaining on bekele, that must feel amazing and would give him a boost, ;lus he was blasting others. I don't know if not having those guys would have made him any faster, but it would NOT have made him slower for sure. So if Rupp had chosen Eugene, he would have the record and solinsky would have run 27:20 with a 1:53/4ish last 800 and we would be having the debate about whose run was actually better.
giffypop17 wrote:
Perspectivation wrote:Had they not gotten blasted they could have continued on their pace, or closer to it, or maybe had a strong close.
Rupp did do this, though. His last 800 was approximately 2:07, and the 800 before that (and most the race) was approximately 2:11.
In addition, Solinsky's the only one who blasted him. He was in a good race with Chelanga and Salel until the last 100 meters or so. There's really no good reason to think Rupp could have run any faster.
And your Bekele/Ritz example doesn't really make sense. Nobody blasted by Bekele, so by your logic, Bekele should have had his strongest close, not having people close in on him.
youreanidiot wrote:
So if Rupp had chosen Eugene, he would have the record and solinsky would have run 27:20 with a 1:53/4ish last 800 and we would be having the debate about whose run was actually better.
exactly
hmmmmmmm wrote:
youreanidiot wrote:So if Rupp had chosen Eugene, he would have the record and solinsky would have run 27:20 with a 1:53/4ish last 800 and we would be having the debate about whose run was actually better.
exactly
Not so sure Rupp would have had the record. He only broke by 3 seconds, and he would have had to be totally alone the last 3.5k.
I also know 'from experience' that it is much easier to run with people breathing down your back than to run with no one near you.
So my point stands. If Rupp didn't have Solinsky, Chelanga, and the other guy, Rupp would not have run fast enough to break this record.
Having people with you in the pack, even if you are leading does make you run faster. Yes it is taxing but you are in the lead in a competitive situation. You run much faster than being solo. If you have not experienced this than you have never been in the lead of a race.
Nor Cal Runner wrote:
Having people with you in the pack, even if you are leading does make you run faster. Yes it is taxing but you are in the lead in a competitive situation. You run much faster than being solo. If you have not experienced this than you have never been in the lead of a race.
Says all the experts who have american or world records.
SOME people run better (relaxed) on their own after the rabbits have dropped out, because they can focus on their rhythm. It's never EASY, but it can be less stressful - if YOU are going after a record, as was the case here - than if others are along for the ride. Whether Rupp would have actually have gotten it on his own is, however, purely conjecture. NO ONE knows, probably including Rupp himself.
I would have been a little bitter (but gotten over it the next day as Rupp probably has) to have the race unfold as it did. Rupp took on ALL the pressure - I only watched the race because it was set up for fast times (because the 10000m is really a non-event otherwise) - and was probably in shock at the outcome, I know I was stunned at Solinsky's last 800m, for a guy in his debut who had shown potential previously but never before delivered on this scale.
The sad part is that people blame Rupp for all the Hype, when it is really Salazar - that's his style (unlike Jerry S.) - which also gets people interested in what are otherwise on-events, see how many Networks jump on the Solinsky bandwagon (who?).
So my point stands. If Rupp didn't have Solinsky, Chelanga, and the other guy, Rupp would not have run fast enough to break this record.
no your point does not stand...(at leats not based on my statement, this entire thread is pure speculation)
if rupp didn't have solinsky, chelanga, and "the other guy" in my opinion he probably would have run around the same time...anywhere from 27:08 to 27:15), so had he run in Eugene he probably would have broken the old record but i do not think he could run 26:59 by himself
however, a point i think is almost beyond debate is that without Rupp, Stanford would not have been nearly as fast, and solinsky would not have the american record without Rupp pushing from the front
so in my opinion, had rupp run in Eugene the rcord today would stand with rupp at around 27:08-27:12 and solinsky would have a fat new PR of around 27:20 with a huge last 800, leaving us all to speculate about his potential in the event
could be wrong but based on the evidence this seems like the most likely scenario
Chelanga would have taken the lead or the Kenyan if Rupp hadn't been there. Solinsky is about 10 seconds superior to Rupp, no arguing that Rupp lovers. Hilarious how now it becomes Rupp pushing the pace is what got Solinsky the record, not the fact that he is in great shape and the best american runner.
haha, YO (super serial) wrote:
Runs a 27:10 then Solinksy rocks his shit at Stanford? I would have laughed my ass off. Already funny enough that he got his ass kicked by a badass hard working runner who doesn't f***ing care about pollen and shit and just f***ing runs against good competition. Also very happy Chelenga beat him too. Rupp sucks.
How sad is it that your idea of "badass" runner is Pippy Long Stocking?
ring a bell mfers wrote:
Chelanga would have taken the lead or the Kenyan if Rupp hadn't been there. Solinsky is about 10 seconds superior to Rupp, no arguing that Rupp lovers. Hilarious how now it becomes Rupp pushing the pace is what got Solinsky the record, not the fact that he is in great shape and the best american runner.
so you are actually saying Rupp pushing the pace for the entire time after the rabbits dropped did not have an effect on him, and that running that way is as easy as coasting along behind a pack as solinsky was doing...
if thats the premise youre basing your arguments on then we really don't have anything else to talk about, the entire history of track and field contradicts you but...to each his own
if chelanga was or the kenyan would have taken the lead and pushed as hard as rupp did, then yes, solinsky would have run the same time, that may or may not have happened with no evidence to support it either way, in my opinion if they would have done that they would have at least made an effort to help rupp out...
hmmmmmmm wrote:
ring a bell mfers wrote:Chelanga would have taken the lead or the Kenyan if Rupp hadn't been there. Solinsky is about 10 seconds superior to Rupp, no arguing that Rupp lovers. Hilarious how now it becomes Rupp pushing the pace is what got Solinsky the record, not the fact that he is in great shape and the best american runner.
so you are actually saying Rupp pushing the pace for the entire time after the rabbits dropped did not have an effect on him, and that running that way is as easy as coasting along behind a pack as solinsky was doing...
if thats the premise youre basing your arguments on then we really don't have anything else to talk about, the entire history of track and field contradicts you but...to each his own
if chelanga was or the kenyan would have taken the lead and pushed as hard as rupp did, then yes, solinsky would have run the same time, that may or may not have happened with no evidence to support it either way, in my opinion if they would have done that they would have at least made an effort to help rupp out...
The guy you are talking with is either a troll or an idiot or both.
There is no debate, leading in a record attempt takes much more effort. That is not debateable.
Regarding if Rupp was not in the race. Sam Chelanga is a shitty leader, the guy is all over the place and he panics, the complete OPPOSITE of Galen which is why the scenario could not have been more perfect for all three of those fortunate coasters with a rock like Rupp pacing. Sam would have spurted, slowed, moved into lane 2 several times, looked around, panicked, used up more energy so that the pace would fall further and Solinsky would have won the race with a brilliant (Rupp like) finish around 27:18-27:22, coming down from 27:30 pace. Which is exactly what Rupp would have done if he were in the same spot as Solinsky and content to just sit to win.
As far as could Rupp have done it on his own? Well what did he do in Eugene as a teenager in the 10K the last time he went for an A(J)R? He stormed home to smash it with a sub 14 second half all alone. That is not debateable.
youreanidiot wrote:
rupp obviously could have set the record without those other 3...if he was paced for 6.5k . It would have been easier to run 3.5, knowing you are going to win and going for the record without people drafting. Having people draft off of you is taxing.
Who's the idiot? Rupp would of hit his time as long as he had his pacers trough 6.5k? Well guess who would have run 26:59 with other people pacing him? Not everyone has their own pace setters. I'm willing to bet if he was in Europe, where they use pace setters and Rupp wasn't there, he still goes sub 27 if the top runners are running sub 27. All of Rupps defenders says he didn't need anybody to run that time he ran but then you mention how he "just needs his pacers". Solinsky had his pacer too. His name was Rupp.
Not as good as I once was wrote:
youreanidiot wrote:rupp obviously could have set the record without those other 3...if he was paced for 6.5k . It would have been easier to run 3.5, knowing you are going to win and going for the record without people drafting. Having people draft off of you is taxing.
Who's the idiot? Rupp would of hit his time as long as he had his pacers trough 6.5k? Well guess who would have run 26:59 with other people pacing him? Not everyone has their own pace setters. I'm willing to bet if he was in Europe, where they use pace setters and Rupp wasn't there, he still goes sub 27 if the top runners are running sub 27. All of Rupps defenders says he didn't need anybody to run that time he ran but then you mention how he "just needs his pacers". Solinsky had his pacer too. His name was Rupp.
You are one dense fool. People are referring to where the rabbits dropped, get it?
The rabbits dropped at 6-6.5K. Rupp could have run his own race in from there plus/minus a few seconds either way and likely on the faster side with out people sitting on him and then going by him.
However if Rupp wasn't in the race, and the rabbits drop at 6.5K than the pace drops off. What is hard to understand about that? Solinsky himself claimed he's a racer not a time chaser so he's not pushing the effort. Chelanga is miserable at it and the other Kenyan never once found his place in the top spot.
On top of that Solinsky rightfully admitted that it wasn't possible without what Rupp did but you are arguing this? The hatred has moved you out of the concious into the subconcious and you are thinking emotionally not rationally. Which is why you keep banging your dong in the door.
And if he had raced in a stacked race in Europe, he'd be claiming he wouldn't have done it had it not been for those fast Africans. All I'm trying to say is he didn't need Rupp. All he needed were other fast racers. He might not have even needed rupp in this race had he had any experience in the 10k. It's not like he waited till 100m out. Rupp wasn't running fast enough so he took off. I'm not saying Rupp wouldn't have hit that time without Solinsky but for you Rupp supporters to come on here and try to discredit Solinskys performance is the only reason I'm on here defending him or showing my "hatred" for Rupp.