Fukuoka All-Time Top-20

he was 3rd in the 10k at the world champs in helsinki in 1987 in his personal best of 27:35, and had a marathon best of 2:08.15

Not An Expert wrote:

In 1987 Takeyuki Nakayama ran a 2:08:18, which makes is the tied (with Rob De Castella) for the 17th-fastest all-time on that course.

"which makes him tied (with Rob De Castella)"

Nakayama was 4th at the OGs two times (1988 & 1992) missing a medal by only a few seconds each time.

Wow, he really went for it! Though 15 km at sub 2:03 pace.

Procrastinator wrote:

Wow, he really went for it! Though 15 km at sub 2:03 pace.

And ahead of today's world record marathon pace through the half. Life I said, this run is pretty similar to Jonesey's in Chicago in '85.

He's one of the greats of Japanese marathoning but relatively unknown because he made a lot of enemies. He hated/hates the Japanese running establishment and publicly spoke out against them and Seko during Seko's glory days, was repeatedly screwed by those in power, had the national record in 10000 m and marathon, twice 4th in the Olympics as someone said, and was/is an overall scary badass who wasn't afraid to race like suicide. Due to all that he is almost invisible these days compared to the other great marathoners of the day who regularly do race commentary etc. My wife interviewed him a year or two ago and said it was the best one she's ever done.

Wow, thanks Brett. Any ideas why he hated the establishment (and what he said about it)? And you say he wasn't afraid to race like suicide--any other examples of going out hard (and either crashing and burning or not [or somewhere in between, like this one])? Also, is there an (English-language) copy of your wife's interview anywhere? I was already interested in this guy based on just that one result, but now I'm very intrigued.

This guy sounds like a bad ass, can you share that interview Brett?

Yeah, I've wanted to translate that interview for a long time. OK, I'll try to get to it over the holidays. I wish there was a way to get his book and the one about his rivalry with Seko published in English. They're amazing stuff.

When Mika gets home I'll see if she wants to post something about Nakayama as she knows the details better than I do and really respects him and loves to talk about him.

The past history of fukuoka is pretty interesting. I was unaware that shorter was a 4 time winner and drayton was 3x. Rodgers was the last amercian (spelled redgers on the site). Shorters PR was at Fuk also. I beleive rodgers was the only person to ever win NY, BOston and Fuk.

I miss the old days

herbkarp wrote:

I beleive rodgers was the only person to ever win NY, BOston and Fuk.

I think he was the first (only?) one to hold all three titles (Boston, NY, and Fukuoka) at the same time.

Brett:

Your wife interviewed him? That's great! When I was invited to this running symposium last year, Nakayama was supposed to be one of the panel guys along with some WC medalists, Olympian, etc. He was the only one I wanted the autograph of--simply because he was such a lebel.

He was, you might say, a blue color runner. Unlike runners like Seko or perhaps anybody else, who was a good runner in high school and went on to a corporate team; he was from a very small remote village and, although a decent runner, never been "recruited" to a corporate team. That was a big chip on his shoulder. He had to work at a train station for a couple of years, cleaning the public bathroom there, drunk businessmen puking all over the place and all that... All his training was done in the total darkness during that time but he trained very hard because of one goal in mind--to be a good runner. He won Nagoya City 30k race to be recognized by the late coach Sato at Daie corp team. I believe he ran Fukuoka in 82 or 83 but not with much promise. It was, I believe, 1984 Fukuoka; post LA Olympics and none of the big names (from Japan) were running. A young East German was the favorite along with Ikangaa. Then this tall figure with Afro perm hair was running along side. He ended up winning prestegious Fukuoka in 2:10 something. Not a bad time either. Then came Hiroshima World Cup marathon in the spring of 1985. Soh brothers were running and Nakayama, though Fukuoka champ from previous year, was just one of the runners. The race turned out to be a neck-to-neck battle between Nakayama and Djibuti's Salah. I was there, watching the race at a coffee shop with Australia's Pat Clohessy and we couldn't figure out who the heck this Japanse was. As we rushed to the stadium to watch the finish, there was an excitement that these two were very close to breakig then-Jonesie's world record of 2:08:05. Salah took off coming into the stadium and coasted in the second fastest time in history (I think it was something like 2:08:10) with Nakayama breaking Seko's national record with 2:08:15. Very exciting race.

87 Fukuoka was an epic race. Nakayama was mad, going into that race. Nakayama had run several 2:08s in a row, which was unheard of at the time (something like one in Beijing and another one in Korea or something). He also broke Seko's 10000m national record by 10 seconds or something and he definitely was THE huge threat to Prince Seko who was the prime example of "white color" elite--high school middle distance star, Waseda university standout, and S&B elite runner. His big chip in the shoulder was actually working well for him; he had pretty much single-mind goal and that is to crash all Seko's record and Seko himself. Federation picked Fukuoka to be THE Olympic Trial; then came the news that Seko was injured. All of a sudden they decided to include Lake Biwa to be the second Trial race. Nakayama didn't like that at all. Nakayama left the famous quote: "If Seko wanted to go to the Olympics, he should crawl to Fukuoka!"

The race day was with freezing rain. Temp was probably no higher than 40F. You could see runner's breath. Mad Nakayama took off from the gun--he wanted to show the world that he was so much better than Seko. Prior to that race, Shorter ran the first 5k in 14:36 in 1973 Fukuoka and that was the fastest opening 5. Nakayama did 14:30 and the condition was far from ideal for such an opening. The last 10k, he was bearly hanging onto it; his arms and legs were freezing and getting numb. I believe the guy who finished second, Shintaku, was actually closing in the final 5k (Seko's teammate). Many believed, had it been run in more ideal condition and had he paced himself, he would have run 2:06 that day.

His unfortunate situation was; he was too much of a lebel and he just didn't have more charismatic coach/mentor. He was instired by his own rage to force public to recognize him. Of course, that's what made him such a great runner; but had he been guided a bit more sensibly, he could have been running 2:06 or even 2:05 when people were bearly imagining 2:07 marathon. He was that good. Going into Seoul Olympic, he was already injured. It was a miracle that he finished 4th. Of course, his racing style was very different--he always did well when he took off and controlled the race from the front. The opening of Seoul was something like 15:50. It just wasn't his race. In 1991 Tokyo WC, he was in a too good of shape that he over-trained. He looked waaaaaay too skinny going into the race. Of course, just like Takahashi in 2003 Tokyo marathon, he ran out of gas and retired. After that, it was Taniguchi (who won 91 WC) and Morishita's era. It showed somewhat "soft" side of Nakayama when Morishita (I believe it was his first marathon) won Tokyo marathon before Barcelona. Nakayama was leading and then Morishita came up from behind. As Morishita passed Nakayama, he patted on his back and urged him on. Some experts had pointed out that his "fire" was gone. As Morishita battled it out with Wong for the silber medal in Barcelona, Nakayama quietly took 4th place, bearly missig it by steps to the German guy.

Nakayama was what some called "spring" runner. His style of getting up on his toes and run te entire 42km, besides Bill Rodgers, was quite unheard of even today. By 1992, ASICS's shoe-maker, Mimura, said that Nakayama came to him and asked for special shoes with extra cushion. He said then that he knew Nakayama's era was finished. He was losing that spring. Adidas was trying to get him to wear their shoes in early 1990s. I was talking to the guy who was working on that project and saw Nakayama's training shoes. There was not much wear sign at all on his heel; it was all in the fore-part of the shoes. He was a typical "toe-runner" just like Shorter or Rodgers. Had they had today's rabbitting, to have 4 or 5 runners to guard him and pace him through at more sensible (or "sane") 15:00 splits, I have no doubt, he would have run 2:05 back in 1980s.

He coached a collge team for a while but didn't do much. Then he now coaches a high school team. I think he is doing probably doing a better job developing a character than a fine runner; which might suit better for a high school coach, as an educator. His son is running for some high school and doing well but not exceptional. Along with his character and great talent, he was known with his Afro perm and squeeky high-voice. Far from politically-correct, no-nonesence type of a guy; but actually quite a nice guy. Maybe he did lose that "fire" and that sort of "rounded" him up.

Did I say "lebel"? I meant "rebel". ;o)

Thanks for sharing, Nobby!

Sorry, I didn't have a lot of time before and I rushed it and it was pretty bad writing (it's "silver medal", not "silber"!!)--I apologize. Now my wife too our daughter to a singing lesson, I can sit and think a bit better (probably not much difference in outcome...).

Brett: all due respect, I don't think Nakayama was constantly screwed by authotities. I think the incidence was that 87 Fukuoka trial deal. The fact is; it wasn't Nakayama but the guy who finished third in that race, Kudo, who was screwed. On the contrary, there was no denying that Nakayama was probably THE best talent in the world at the time. He could have stepped ont anyday and run a 2:10 marathon. The federation tried very hard to get him under their control--not in a bad way; it wasn't so much of forceful manner but more of a a$$-kissing manner; but Nakayama was too much of a loner; he wanted to do things his way. He pretty much parted his coach, Sato, because, well, for one, Sato just couldn't handle him. Federation tried to get some coach and got the late Susumu Takahashi who coached Kimihara in the 1960s and a big time authoriterian name but it was rather disastrous. They started those all-Japan training camp at that time pretty much in order to get Nakayama under their guidance (they tried to do that once again with women's team for Berlin this summer but that didn't go too well either). People like Professor Usami, coach Hiroshima (Soh brother's coach) were regular faces at those camps but Nakayama was too much lie a wild horse and wasn't a good fit with any of them.

It is so true that he just "rebelled" with any authorities; he wanted to do things his way. His training was almost all quality. He used to do intervals with the teammates and he would run a lane or two outside just to make it tough. As a coach, I would never have anybody train that way but obviously it worked well with him. He was a typical example of "what didn't kill him made him stroner".

I wouldn't quite say that he is not well-known in Japan. Yes, in a sense, as you put it, that he's not a regular commentator in the races but it's more to do with his style of talking and whether he actually would like to do things like that or not. He's still very much respected and, because of his rebel style, quite liked. As for commentating, I think Seko is very good and entertaining. He knows the stuff and he does a very good job. I personally don't like Kin-san but he's very much established himself as a guru among "joggers" with tons of books so his position is secured. Same with Akemi Masuda. But Masuda-san is very knowledgeable and she does her stuff well. I personally like her better than Q-chan but then again, Q-chan's got a gold medal around her neck and people still like to listen to what she has to say simply because of that fact. So basically I don't think they would need anybody else. So it's not so much of Nakayama not being liked but there's no room for him. I can see him appearing in one of those game shows with his dry sense of humour and husky voice.

I'm sure this thread would eventually go to "how did he train" question. Like I said, he liked quality. He didn't like long distance like Seko or Soh brothers did. None of those over-distance work--that's why we, Lydiard Foundation, don't want to talk about him! ;o) Just kidding. He liked to do mainly 30k tempo. If I recall it correctly, though, he had done a workout like back-to-back 30k; 30k in AM and 30k in PM. Always total quality. Interestingly, though, he commented that he valued "recovery jogging" as very important part of his training program. What he meant, however, was that he didn't take it as a compete "rest" day. He took it as the opportunity to actually strengthen his legs. So, slower jog, yes; but he would jog some rugged cross country course... So he's not putting a lot of stress on his overall fitness but still strengthening his legs. Well, I kept saying that he was very talented but someone said that he was not just a genious; he trained very hard too. He did have this total professional attitude. He was getting paid with his running performance. When he wore his corporate team uniform, he was out there for business; that means to do well. Many had commented that he dd have "hungry spirit" like a boxer. A very unique runner coming out from corporate team setting of Japan.

Brett: Look forward to your translation of the interview. Yeah, it's amazing a runner like Nakayama is almost unknown in the US or other part of the world. He did run Boston, I think, in 1989 or 1990. He dropped out. I think that was the only marathon he did in the US. I think he also ran Paris marathon but some average performance. That might have been his last marathon--he probably did it as a part of sight seeing tour! ;o) Would have loved to see him on some fast flat course like Chicago or Rotterdam with a bunch of Africans... I still think his Hiroshima WC marathon was the best. As a novice, to battle it out with Salah (who was also a novice I guess...) and Ikangaa, Abebe Mekonen and all the other African runners... That was something else.

Nobby--

Wow, no need to talk about translating his book now, you just wrote it! Great messages. Nice to hear from someone who was there, man. Of course I meant relatively unknown outside Japan, relatively invisible in Japan. That's why we have to have a thread like this one but not a similar one about Seko. A few additions:

The best example of him getting screwed was the Asian Games marathon in Korea where he ran 2:08 something. He had planned to run Chicago that year, but the federation people came to him and said, "We really need you to run the Asian Games instead." He said no, but they were persistent and he finally gave in. Right after he committed to it it was announced that Seko was running Chicago, where he won and gained a lot of fame worldwide. Nakayama ran faster in Korea off his rage but it's a performance few remember.

His 10000 m national record was also done off anger. When he was getting some good results in the marathon people said, "Well, he doesn't have Seko's track speed." That pissed him off so he went, trained real hard, and then banged out what is still the 2nd-best 10000 m time ever by a Japanese guy.

He was coaching at Aichi Tokushu Seiko, a steel company, for a while but quit this year. His son Takuya did pretty well in high school, but Nakayama told him, "Don't bother trying hard in high schoool or university, save it for when you can make money off your running. Just sit back, watch other people and learn from their mistakes, then use it later." The absolutely incredible thing that I still can't believe is that of all the places Takuya could have gone, he was recruited by Seko's university, Waseda. Sweet, sweet irony.

Threads like this is why I love this message board. Wonderful insight.

Brett:

Oh, now I know what you meant; but then again, yeah, that happens a lot in Japan (US? I don't know...).

I should probably keep this confidential??? but oh, heck... Japanese Federation always think "they" take care of athletes. Of course, when Yoko (Shibui) announced that she couldn't run Berlin due to a stress fracture, the head of the federation, Sawaki, said something like it's his fault of not taking closer look into what the athletes and coaches were doing (you see, Sawaki's right hand man, Murai-san, reads English so I'd have to be a bit careful... But then again, he's actually pretty cool so if he reads this, he would laught about it??? Or not... Murai-san actually is the one who coached Douglas Wakiihuri). I don't think he did it this time but sometime along the way, at some other competition, the team didn't do as well as they'd thought, so the federation's head chopped his head...hair sort and did a crew cut to apologize to public. At any rate, after Yoko's incident, Sawaki said something along the line of that the federation would have to take closer look at what coaches are doing; meaning, once they get to the competition site, federation would take over the coaching. Can you imagine? They have no idea how the athletes been progressing and all of a sudden, 5 days before the most important race comes around, they'd take over. Yeah, that'll fly... Anyways, Murai-san did come out and check out how Yoko was doing before Berlin. Nabe was joking about it that it was then when Yoko started to complain about her foot discomfort... ;o)

Speaking of Yoko, I think it was early this year when they had the final (or was it?) Yokohama ekiden. Yoko just won Osaka marathon and she was taking it easy. Federation insisted that she's got to run the final leg. She did and kept the lead and Japan won but she looked clearly out of shape. And you know how Japanese federation intervened and didn't let Q-chan to run Chicago a few weeks after Berlin, when was it, in 2001? Koide said that she wanted to challenge herself to see what she can and cannot do. Federation said it's their job to protect her future. Well, her future was sort of downhill after that anyways...

I didn't know that was the same year that Nakayama ran the Asian Games marathon (I remember and that was that 2:08 performance I was talking about) and that was the same time Seko ran Chicago. Of course, by then, Nakamura was gone and who knows what Seko was thinking and whether that was in sync with federation.

4 more hours to Fukuoka. I have to go to this play tonight so I don't know what time I could get home to watch it; but you always do a great job with update anyways. So good luck! Jon Brown is writing a story for our (Lydiard Foudation) blog so I'll be looking forward to that. Ogata is out; one of the Russian guy's out... Kebede looks like the only one but then again, he'd already run 2 high quality marathons this year... Just got an e-mail from Bill Rodgers and he sounded not so happy that people talk about "Big 5 marathons" and Fukuoka is not included. It should and they should do a better job of bringing more quality field as well. When Sammy Wanjiru won it (his first marathon) with Sato third in 2:07--now that was a class field and that was classic Fukuoka.

douglas burke wrote:

he was 3rd in the 10k at the world champs in helsinki in 1987 in his personal best of 27:35, and had a marathon best of 2:08.15

1987 Helsinki World Championships 10K:

1. Paul KipKoech Kenya 27:38.68

2. Francesco Panetta Italy 27:48.98

3. Hansjorg Kunce East Germany 27:50.26

Only Japanese runner in that final:

20. Kozo Akutsu Japan 28:45.89

Takeyuki Nakayama was not in that race.