Why Ultrarunning is Dumb

So I will add fuel to your little fire...Rumor is that AdventureCorps (the company that puts on Badwater) is expanding and their next race is going to be held in the Black Forest of Germany. Trying to line up a winter date for the event. There you go, Badwater Germany!

This is the first time I've actually enjoyed a long-winded post. Well said, good sir.

Tell you the truth, your rationale is also how I feel about the marathon. I don't deny the excellence of Gebrselassie, but seriously, why 26.2? Our ancestors evolved to chase animals for about 15k, at which point most animals exhaust & collapse in the heat of the day, and we humans caught them. Which probably explains why our glycogen reserves are really only sufficient for up to 20 miles. Anything beyond that was simply unecessary.

Well said Kilgore! Man, now I believe that you are indeed the real kilgore of old.

I couldn't agree with you more.

I could not agree more. So in your opinion were is the limit of insanity vs athleticism as far as distance.

B Zilcho wrote:

This is the first time I've actually enjoyed a long-winded post. Well said, good sir.

Tell you the truth, your rationale is also how I feel about the marathon. I don't deny the excellence of Gebrselassie, but seriously, why 26.2? Our ancestors evolved to chase animals for about 15k, at which point most animals exhaust & collapse in the heat of the day, and we humans caught them. Which probably explains why our glycogen reserves are really only sufficient for up to 20 miles. Anything beyond that was simply unecessary.

Where do you get the 15k figure?

B Zilcho wrote:

This is the first time I've actually enjoyed a long-winded post. Well said, good sir.

Tell you the truth, your rationale is also how I feel about the marathon. I don't deny the excellence of Gebrselassie, but seriously, why 26.2? Our ancestors evolved to chase animals for about 15k, at which point most animals exhaust & collapse in the heat of the day, and we humans caught them. Which probably explains why our glycogen reserves are really only sufficient for up to 20 miles. Anything beyond that was simply unecessary.

I think you should know why the marathon is the distance it is. every distance runner knows that old story.

I agree, but the really dangerous distance is the 10k. For example, John Treacy collapsed in the Moscow Olympic 10k and nearly died (probably...). Salazar back in 78 had last rites after he dared to try to go even a mile further than the dangerour 10,000 meters. Any event in which you risk your health (or reputation...) is just too extreme for me!!

Some would say extremism is excellance.

You don't think 9.58 is extreme? 12:37? 26:17?

73 home runs?

300lb linebackers?

Moderate is boring. Excitement is in the extreme.

Alan

bevis wrote:

I think you should know why the marathon is the distance it is. every distance runner knows that old story.

hm.. really? so everyone knows that it is because of the first london olympics in 1908, where the race was started at windsor castle which just randomly put the distance at 26 miles plus a part of the stadium lap??

Runningart2004 wrote:

Some would say extremism is excellance.

Many would say that you probably wouldn't know the first thing about excellence, Tobin.

Your Arnold analogy sucks. He admittedly took as many steroids as he could get his hands on. Today's athletes on today's steroids are bigger. No big mystery there. Your kidney failure reference sucks. One high-profile ultrarunner recently had kidney failure after a race. Yes, it has happened before and will happen again. It has also happened to 70 year olds going for 3 hour marathons and will happen again. Doesn't mean that isn't a great accomplishment or that it should be belittled by some a-hole that knows nothing about the sport.

Whether you like ultrarunning or not means nothing. When the ultrarunners get on this board and start telling you that 5k, 10k and marathon runners are worthless pieces of shit then you should start getting upset. Until then why don't you keep your foolish opinions to yourself.

German, English, American guy wrote:

bevis wrote:

I think you should know why the marathon is the distance it is. every distance runner knows that old story.

hm.. really? so everyone knows that it is because of the first london olympics in 1908, where the race was started at windsor castle which just randomly put the distance at 26 miles plus a part of the stadium lap??

yes.

B Zilcho wrote:

Our ancestors evolved to chase animals for about 15k, at which point most animals exhaust & collapse in the heat of the day, and we humans caught them. Which probably explains why our glycogen reserves are really only sufficient for up to 20 miles. Anything beyond that was simply unecessary.

it is such bs when people argue for or against athletic events based on some crap our "ancestors" used to do. If that were important, than shouldn't it be even more important to have athletic events that reflect real physical demands required of us in modern life? meaning, the 300m stroll or the 12oz arm curl?

by the way, humans used to chase prey for much more than 15k. so even your silly reason is illogical.

Nothing like putting a bunch of other people down to feel good about yourself.

How about this:

I'll bet you know how far you can run at 4 min/mile pace.

And I'll bet you know how far you can run at 5 min/mile pace.

And I'll bet you know how far you can run at 6 min/mile pace.

But do you know how long you can maintain 7-8 min/mile pace? If you don't, try racing an ultra. That's what it's all about.

pennywise de clown wrote:

How about this:

I'll bet you know how far you can run at 4 min/mile pace.

And I'll bet you know how far you can run at 5 min/mile pace.

And I'll bet you know how far you can run at 6 min/mile pace.

But do you know how long you can maintain 7-8 min/mile pace?

No, it's not important enough for me to know "how far" I can run at any of those paces. I race to beat people, not fulfill some arbitrary and contrived standard.

being a billionaire is extreme. do you think it is dumb too?

finnishguy wrote:

being a billionaire is extreme. do you think it is dumb too?

Not dumb, obscene.

Can I share this little story.

I always woundered what sort of talent did you need to be a REALLY good ultra marathon runner. I've seen a lot of ultra races and the form that people seem to get by on does resemble a death march.

How can they keep that up for 100miles? and what would happen if you got a truely gifted (in our traditional sense of talent) athlete to run these ultra's. Surely he/she would rewrite the record books.

So I went to work to convince the fastest runner I could find to run an ultra. Specifically the Perth 24hour track race in 1986. I spun it that he should be able to break the Australian 24 hour record (I think it was about 235 KM back then). Anyway, I got a bite from the best candidate I could have hoped for. Alan Thurlow was a 33YO ex Kiwi transplant with 13.30 5km and 28.20 10km and 2.13 marathon credentials. He had represented NZ at World Cross and had grown up running up and down the mountains around Dunedin (on the South island).

Anyway, he committed to do the race and jumped in to do some "distance" training with a few of the local ultra runners in the community. These guy's idea of a long run was to run 1-1 1/2 hours in one direction and then turn left. After repeating this process 3 more times they assumed that they would return to where they started. Anyway his training prep went well. His goal was to run at least 250 km.

The race started at midday. I helped crew for Alan. Right away he clipped along at sub 4.00min km pace. (he had discovered in training that running any slower than this actually fatigued him more) - this is a rookie mistake, but the guy was so talented, you had to support his race plan. So he is cursing along at around 6.10-6.20 pace for the first 4-5 hours. His 50mile split was 5hours 25mins. Then he came off for a proper meal and a rub down.

Thats when the wheels started to chip away. Getting back on the track, and getting some additional mileage at "pace" was getting increasingy difficult. We put in some timed walking breaks, but getting him going again was getting harder and harder. After 8 hours he came off the track and said he wanted to stop. I had done this race the previous year and assured him that everyone wants to stop after 8 hours of running. The trick is to accept that all you have to do is put one foot in front of the other and keep going.

Meanwhile, all likelyhood of Alan breaking the Australian record was fading fast. He was putting in hourly lap counts of 8-9km's and coming off the track every 20-30mins. Then when he got back on he was begining to resemble an old man, constantely bitching, on his way to an early grave (literally). He got worse and worse until around 14 hours when myself and the other handlers pulled him off and throw him in the caravan we were based out of. The leaders of the race had long since passed him. It was now time to decide to set another goal of perhaps covering "just" 100miles - before calling it a day.

He bitched and whinned and bitched some more. He was sobbing, crying and chocking on the whole experience. This was a bit of a shock to me because I had seen Alan decimate hard core fields on the track and the road. He was an animal, and had nothing to prove to us. All we could do was appeal to his own self pride. In the end he walked in the 161 laps needed to complete 100miles in less that 24hours (21 hours and change). Nothing we could say, do or gesture could make him go any faster, no matter what little mind f&uck game we played on him. In the end it was his own decision to keep going after turning his attitude from racing to shear survival.

So here's to the Ultra runners, especially those that push hard, and want to get the best out of themselves. They are a diferent breed, quite possibly from another planet.

Alan never ran another ultra again, and did encourage me to stop as well.