RITZ 12:56 proof that lydiard style marathon base training is key

Spped is what brought him the record. For years he did marathon training and had no breakout performances. So when he adds speed to the equation, that demonstrates that speed is key, not that the stuff that he had been doing all along is key.

Lydiard is the MAN wrote:

This just adds more weight to the paper weight people. Regardless he wasn't just base training, but he was training for the Marathon. Lydiard says Marathon conditioning is key to reaching ones potential. How many years now has Ritz been doing this type of training? 3? 4? years and look at the results.

Lydiard always said Americans were to focused on the Icing part of the cake (anaerobic training). Looks like one American finally make the cake first (Maxing aerobic conditioning) then put the icing on after!

Brother you may just be correct. Ritz put in a massive base of thousands of CONSISTENTLY high-end, aerobic, long, fast runs over hilly terrain. Like some other folks have pointed out, I knew this kid had some serious talent and knew he'd run super fast one day, but 1. I thought he'd peak out with a 13:0? 5k and 2. I thought his breakthrough would come in the 10k.

I'm a bit of a stubborn-head, but I still believe he's gonna throw something nasty down in the 10k. All of the top guys in that 2001 Junior XC race have broken 27 minutes for 10k. With his (new) 12:56 and better sharpening, sub 27 is surely right around the corner.

scones wrote:

Spped is what brought him the record. For years he did marathon training and had no breakout performances. So when he adds speed to the equation, that demonstrates that speed is key, not that the stuff that he had been doing all along is key.

I am not going to even touch on this because you obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

The OP has it right. Without the Marathon conditioning his speed work would have left if flat on his face with 3 laps to go. But with his marathon conditioning he was able to hold out to the end to tap in to his anaerobic training that he has recently compiled over the last few months with Al Sal.

Jesus, you criticize someone else -- and you can't even COMPOSE A FEW SENTENCES IN CORRECT ENGLISH.

Which of you is stupider?

It is about BALANCE.

It's all about the speed baby. That's why he just did something that no other american has done even though most of them have been all over the marathon base training like white on rice. Finally you get a guy who works the spped seriously and bingo....in such short time too. Speed rules baby.

Wisdom wrote:

Jesus, you criticize someone else -- and you can't even COMPOSE A FEW SENTENCES IN CORRECT ENGLISH.

Which of you is stupider?

It is about BALANCE.

Ya ya my bad its 4:30 here give me a break! I haven't even had my first cup of joe.

dude your so full of it.)lies)

check the 2001 junior XC results and tell me what guys went sub 27:00 for the 10k.

Out of the top 10, only bekele has broken 27:00 for the 10k.

yyy wrote:

dude your so full of it.)lies)

check the 2001 junior XC results and tell me what guys went sub 27:00 for the 10k.

http://www2.iaaf.org/wxc01/results/data/M/XJ/Rf.html

Out of the top 10, only bekele has broken 27:00 for the 10k.

Do I have to say it?

Teg.

scones wrote:

Finally you get a guy who works the spped seriously and bingo....in such short time too. Speed rules baby.

62 sec laps for about 13 mins...is that speed or strength?

I bet even you can run a 62 sec 400m so speed isn't the issue here.

One thing to remember...NOTHING COMES EASY, if it does then you're cheating.

Nicholas Kemboi?

Having watched both Kennedy and Ritz run while they were in high school, it does not surprise me in the least that Ritz broke Kennedy's record. Both did it 8 years after leaving HS. The major difference is that Ritz's intervening 8 years were much less consistent than Kennedy's. But bear in mind that Ritz has been more or less healthy for two consecutive years now.

Here's his accomplishments from summer '07 to now, lifted from Wikipedia:

# 2007 - 9th place 10,000 m at IAAF World Championships in Osaka, Japan

# 2007 - 2nd place at the U.S. Olympic Marathon Team Trials, qualifying for the Beijing Olympics

# 2008 - 1st place at the U.S. Cross Country Championships.

# 2008 - 9th place, 1st American, at the Men's Olympic Marathon in Beijing, China, with a time of 2:11:59.

# 2009 - 2nd place at the U.S. Half Marathon Championships.

# 2009 - 11th place, 2nd American, at the 2009 Flora London Marathon (2:10:00 PR)

# 2009 - 2nd place, 10000m, USA Outdoor Championships, 27:58.59

# 2009 - 6th place, 10000m, at IAAF World Championships in Berlin, Germany (27:22.28 PR, no pacemakers)

# 2009 - 3rd place, 5000m, at IAAF Golden League Meet in Zurich, Switzerland, setting the American Record in the 5000m of 12:56.27

Consistent upswing. But we didn't notice with our Hall/Rupp/Lagat mania because until last week he really didn't stick out among Americans--which is in itself a huge breakthrough.

gfdgdfg wrote:

http://www.law.duke.edu/sportscenter/salazar.pdf

"I believe that it is currently difficult to be

among the top 5 in the world in any of the distance events without using EPO or Human Growth Hormone."

wow....so those of you saying Ritz/Rupp etc will take on the world...even his current coach does not think it is (realistically) possible.

The main idea of Lydiard-type training is that an individual's best route to make gains as a distance runner is to steadily improve his aerobic capacity through base training. The lower/faster the threshold, the faster one can run at any distance. Lydiard did not believe that big long term gains could be made through regular anaerobic and speed work, but this type of work is necessary closer to racing season so that the runner reaches his peak.

Even though I doubt Ritz came close to following Lydiard's "schedules", I would assume that his training over the last couple of years with Brad Hudson (and the last couple of months with Salazar) led to the same physiological results. In other words, Ritz's improved his aerobic capacity tremendously and then sharpened to a peak resulting in a breakthrough race.

His relative lack of marathon success may just prove that he is more of a 5-10 guy.

What ever happens is proof that Lydiard is correct.

This would be what they call “reinforced dogmatism”.

He’s like Karl Marx.

Eating up the unlikeliest morsels of evidence.

So, wasn't Kara Goucher a medalist?

Off the Grid wrote:

gfdgdfg wrote:http://www.law.duke.edu/sportscenter/salazar.pdf

"I believe that it is currently difficult to be

among the top 5 in the world in any of the distance events without using EPO or Human Growth Hormone."

wow....so those of you saying Ritz/Rupp etc will take on the world...even his current coach does not think it is (realistically) possible.

For everyone saying "OHH speed is the key" you're only have correct. Without going into the science of it, if you go over a certain amount of time, generally over an hour and a half I believe, your aerobic system starts to kick out and your anerobic system starts to kick in. Long story short long runs can actually build speed without doing any workouts... Food for thought if he's training as much as it sounds like he is.

I am a huge fan of Lydiard, so don't take this post wrong. It seems like Ritz did do the Lydiard schedule, maybe on accident, maybe on purpose, but there is one thing we must remember;

Ritz hasn't ran a 5k for almost 2 years. So almost any training he did, as long as he stayed injury free (his biggest issue) he should see some improvement. Compound that with the fact that he has ran 8:11 in 2007 for the two mile the same year he ran his 13:16 5k and you should see what Ritz did wasn't outstanding, just simply over due.

I'm very glad to see Ritz pull this great time off. He's been very underrated and almost written off due to injury. Also, anything that brings positive attention to American distance running is a good thing.

It is NOT Endurance Work VS Speed Work.

It is Endurance Work AND Speed Work.

You need both, in the right amounts, and at the proper points in your training.

Endurance with no Speed and Speed with no Endurance are dead ends for improvement.