does german have (at least a share of) the collegiate record?
i would think 3:55.02 FAT would be superior to tony waldrop's 3:55.0 hand timed. what's the word gonna be?
does german have (at least a share of) the collegiate record?
i would think 3:55.02 FAT would be superior to tony waldrop's 3:55.0 hand timed. what's the word gonna be?
Depends how you you define superior.Waldrop ran on a much smaller track, 10 or 11 laps/mile.
littlemeatchunks wrote:
does german have (at least a share of) the collegiate record?
i would think 3:55.02 FAT would be superior to tony waldrop's 3:55.0 hand timed. what's the word gonna be?
Waldrop ran his on the San Diego track, 11 laps to the mile, wood.
udub. wrote:
Depends how you you define superior.
Waldrop ran on a much smaller track, 10 or 11 laps/mile.
littlemeatchunks wrote:does german have (at least a share of) the collegiate record?
i would think 3:55.02 FAT would be superior to tony waldrop's 3:55.0 hand timed. what's the word gonna be?
So, basically, what you are saying is that he ran a 3:55.0?
I mean, that is the way I see it.
German ran a 3:55.02, and Waldrop ran a 3:55.0.
While German's time is superior, the two will share the collegiate record.
Yes but dont hand times over 400 meters have .12 added to the time when compared to FAT.
good point about the small track. but i meant "superior" as in in faster time, for record purposes.
waldrop's race was recorded to the 1/10 of a second, where german's was more precise, to the 1/100th. waldrop's could have been anywhere from 3:55.00 to 3:55.09.
3:55.0 does not mean 3:55.00
am i correct that they add .14 in hand timed races over 400m (i think it's .24 in races 400m or less) to account for reaction time, etc.?
if you look at lists for high school for instance (the only place they use hand timed results anymore), T&F News will add the appropriate reaction time adjustment to determine ranking.
a kid tht runs a 100m in 10.92fat will be ranked ahead of a kid that runs 10.9ht.
so it looks to me like fernandez has the ncaa record, but i haven't seen anything official yet, the closest being an OSU press release that says the same....
....
for example, from the T&FN 2000 HS boys 800m rankings. . .
1:51.72 ......... *Curtis Parker (Wood, Npt News, Va)
1:51.75 ............ Ryan Ford (Apollo, St Cloud, Mn)
.................... Mike Serratos (Lugo, Chino, Ca)
1:51.85 ................. Daniel Pessing (Keller, Tx)
1:51.8 ..................... Mike Lewis (Cahokia, Il)
(20)
lewis is not tied with pessing, as serratos and ford are; he is ranked behind him.
3:55.02 > 3:55.0
congrats german.
littlemeatchunks wrote:
....
for example, from the T&FN 2000 HS boys 800m rankings. . .
1:51.72 ......... *Curtis Parker (Wood, Npt News, Va)
1:51.75 ............ Ryan Ford (Apollo, St Cloud, Mn)
.................... Mike Serratos (Lugo, Chino, Ca)
1:51.85 ................. Daniel Pessing (Keller, Tx)
1:51.8 ..................... Mike Lewis (Cahokia, Il)
(20)
lewis is not tied with pessing, as serratos and ford are; he is ranked behind him.
3:55.02 > 3:55.0
congrats german.
That's Track and Field News. That's not how the IAAF etc rank times. They should, but they don't.
As a longtime handtimer, i know that it is/was practice to round times up.....So waldrop could have run 3:54 point and had it rounded up. A very good handtimer will not make .24 difference.
TFN lists Waldrop 3:55.0 as the college record holder, though Brannen ran 3:55.11 at BIG.
Hopefully someone (GF?) will run 3:54.75 and this will be a non-issue.
littlemeatchunks wrote:
3:55.02 > 3:55.0
So we agree, German's time was slower.
The standard converstion from hand times to FAT times is to add .24 to ALL hand times. ie 10.0 100 meters hand timed = 10.24 FAT, etc
3:55 Hand-Timed is closer to 3:56... sounds like a relay split, very skeptical.
I think if you put it in list form 3:55.0 would fall between 3:55.09 and 3:55.10
Let's say they were fighting for a last provisional qualifying spot to go to NCAA's (and track size was not a factor). I think Fernandez would be in and Waldrop out.
Old guy runner wrote:
Waldrop ran his on the San Diego track, 11 laps to the mile, wood.
I think Waldrop should have the record based on this reason alone. Sick.
toro wrote:
I think if you put it in list form 3:55.0 would fall between 3:55.09 and 3:55.10
Let's say they were fighting for a last provisional qualifying spot to go to NCAA's (and track size was not a factor). I think Fernandez would be in and Waldrop out.
Actually, if his time was recorded as 3:55.0 that means that the timer recorded a time between 3:54.91 and 3:55.00 on a stopwatch. You always round up to the next tenth in hand-timing.
Now, as for FAT versus handtime conversions, different sources show different suggestions.
Some say always add 0.24
others say add 0.14 over a certain distance.
Others still say over 400m don't add anything at all.
It's debatable. So, what's the conclusion? Hard to say. Waldrop's mark is more impressive. I'd co-list them and hope that Fernandez runs under 3:55.0 soon to erase the controversy.
I am sure Fernandez was hand timed in 3:54 point. They have to have hand timers in case the electronic timing fails.
With the gun right there for the mile, it is very easy to get a reaction time less than .1, people's reaction times are generally around .14, as has been stated, and you start off the smoke, but, when the gun is at the finish line, as it is for this race, the smoke and the bang are nearly simultaneous, and it is shown that load stimuli such as the bang can incite a much faster reaction...on the order of tenths of a second
so in the case here, the hand timed actual time could have been anywhere from 54.51 to 55.00, as was stated, so for about .55 to .51, you can reasonably say that the german was slower, but from .56 to .00, its quite possible that german was faster....in the end there is no way to know because there is too much error in hand timing as opposed to FAT, which can be accurate to 1/10000 sec
A good hand timer and an FAT finish will show little difference in the final read. The difference is found in the human reaction time to the start vs. the computer initiating the start because of electric impulse. If the starter is standing very near the gun, that timer's reaction time will improve because of the double stimulus (both flash and sound) where if the gun is some distance away (100/200 m dashes) then the reaction time is compromised due to only one stimulus (flash.) Most HS physics classes do a reaction time lab where this mutliple stimulus phenomenon is demonstrated. Therefore, the standard conversion is 0.14 if the start happens at or near the finish line, and the standard conversion for distant starts is 0.24.
From strictly a numbers standpoint, 3:55.02 is statistically faster than 3:55.0
From a "which performance was superior" I'd have to say the 3:55.0 because 11 laps to the mile is a bitch race.