Naoko Takahashi's workouts

There is no reason for NOT running, sometime, longer than the distance of the Marathon. Bordin wanted to run about 50-52 km in altitude before his top events, also when, for Luciano Gigliotti and myself, this training could be already useless. When we asked him why he wanted running 3 hours (52 km), he answered "because after this I feel more mentally comfortable and my self confidence can grow".

Also Shami, for example, during periods dedicated to the gym (during October, November and half December he went to gym 9 times per week, with 4 days with sessions in the morning and in the afternoon), had ALWAYS one weekly long run of 45 km, increased till 50 km, at moderate speed (about 3:40 p/km with last 30:00 faster).

However, personally I think that Japaneses exceed in long continuous runs, epecially when are already more old, and had already some physical problem.

In the training of Toshihiko Seko, that was the greatest Marathon runner from Japan, there was a training of 100 km, that they called "mentalization". It seems that Seko, and the top runners of his era (Itoh, the twins Soh and, some year later, Kodama) had a "special week" of volume of about 480 km (300 miles), normally 3-5 weeks before the race. For the ladies, the max distance was 70 km, and Takahashi used to do it several times during the period 1998 - 2000.

Personaly, in Sankt Moritz, I saw Noguchi running 3 times per day ALWAYS in 2004, and ALWAYS running, also for going to a shop for buying something !

A good example about this attitude is Eriko Asai, athlete that tried to qualify for OG or WCh, now I don't remember exactly, but failed the goal because was defeated in Osaka marathon in the final sprint, with 3 or 4 athletes together in aomething more than 2:26. About one month later, if I well remember, she ran the only competition in her career of 100km, MOVING THE WORLD RECORD FROM 7:12 to 6:33, that gave her the 7th position all time, men included. Of course, it's possible to do such a performance ONLY IF LONG RUN OF 70 km OR MORE ARE NORMAL PART OF YOUR TRAINING.

This may be a reason because Japanese marathon runners are not able to last long time. The best women are very young, and disapper in 2-3 years, because they go to destroy themselves under mechanical point of view.

A simple question : for an athlete able running 42 km at 3:18 pace, like Takahashi, which physiological effect can have to run 40 or 50 km at 4:10 ? On the other side, she uses about 50,000 steps for that training, and, if there is some problem in her body structure (she had a lot of injuries during the last 6 years), you go to increase it.

So, my opinion for when you are old of career, is to reduce the general mileage in order to preserve the body structure, but to increase the quantity of "specific mileage", for giving new stimula to the body. For example, if you were able to run 4 times 5 km at 102% OF YOUR MARATHON PACE with 1 km recovery at 95% of MP, after 10 years of career you must go for 5 times, or 5 times plus a final 3k at max speed. If before your long run was 30 - 32 - 34 - 36 km progressive starting from 92/94% of MP for finishing at 100%, now you can alternate 35 - 38 - 40 km at even pace of 98%, or, during a long run of 40 km at 85/90% of your MP, you can put 4-5 times 2 km at your HM pace, for increasing your ability in recycling a higher percentage of the glycogen you used, changing your engine from normal diesel in turbodiesel.

That's the reason because I don't believe too much in a real come back to top level of Takahashi, next Sunday in Nagoya. On the other side, if she is able to qualify. I'm personally very happy for her, because, with her passion, caparbiety and aggressivity, is an example for all the world, and when an athlete works so hard we have always to wish all the best.

Thank you for the analysis. Very interesting reading.

i am pretty sure the girl who ran 633 for 100km is tomoe abe.

Renato:

Thanks for your insight. Certainly brought back some memories! ;o)

Eriko Asai and her coach, the late Isao Sasaki, were really into LSD to the extreme. They used to go 5~6 hours hiking/jogging at pace of 12-minute-mile pace. I had a chance to speak with coach Sasaki pretty much at Asai's peak in 1987~1988 (she did run for Japan in Seoul). He treated me with soft shell turtle--a rare treat; you should try that when you're in Japan next time though I don't necessarily recommend a coocktail of its blood and red wine...

Your thought on body structure and ultra-distance training is quite interesting and I would agree with it. However, the one that comes to my mind is Shigeru Soh, one of the pioneers of ultra-distance training in Japan. When he and his twin brother, Takeshi, were in NZ, I believe it was in 1983, they covered about 125km, around Mt. Egmond. Shigeru, incidentally, was the reason why I decided not to worry too much about my one leg shorter than the other--his form was absolutely terrible! Shigeru would lean on one side (to his right) and Takeshi would lean on the other (to his left). It must have been the way they sat in their mother's womb! ;o)

While I wholeheartedly agree with you on Takahashi possibly making the team this weekend, I'm not quite counting on it either. She has had way too many distructions in her life lately and she seems to have lost focus in her training--something Koide, her former coach, was superb at. She had experimented way too many things based on theories which I think might have contributed more to her getting injured so often; more so than total distance that she trains. I don't necessarily buy into what she says in terms of training or her condition. She seems to know that she's have to stay positive in her appearance for the sake of keeping her sponsors. For sure she will NOT come out and say to the press, "Man, I've pulled my calf muscle 2 weeks before..." which was pretty much the case at Tokyo in 2006 though I question its validity as well.

By the way, I read the article about her preparation in the newspaper in Japanese. I didn't quite get the impression that she "did countless of 40k runs". I thought her actual quote was that she "couldn't remember how many 40k she did" or something like that which I thought was quite different. Sometimes that's a problem--I went to Bob Sevene's clinic in Japan in 1985 and we had an English professor from a famous university in Japan translating. I'll bet he didn't know anything about running but fluent in English. His translation was terrible. I ended up asking Sev my questions directly in English!

Hey, Brent! I will be in Tokyo on 3/27 with Peter Snell. Will you be around? Shoot me an e-mail; perhaps we'll get together???

Renato, thank you for your insights, always a pleasure to read.

s

Bump

Thank you for the replies.

Grazie Renato, non mi aspettavo una risposta da un esperto cosi' qualificato.

It is interesting to note the different philosophy between the "Japanese" school and the "Spanish/Italian" school, which both have created great champions.

It seems that Japanese coaches always go for a mega mileage, with a lot of slow runs

On the other side, the training of "white" European runners is always on the "lower end" of the spectrum, with anyway much higher intensity. It was amazing for me to note that Stefano Baldini trained for Athens with a "very modest" mileage of 180/200 Km weekly

Renato, thank you for posting.

Bordin had some chemical help to accomplish what he did.

Im now in Valencia, looking for 4 Qatari athletes, and for Edwin Soi and Sylvia Kibet. I have 10 minutes of time, and I go to see what posters of Letsrun write, and, also this time, I have to read some stupidity, written by somebody not knowing anything, but arrogant and sure to know without any correct information.

I speak about Gelindo Bordin. If you jknow Bordin, you can understand that what you suppose is the biggest bullshit you can say. Gelindo was a ¨wild¨runner, never took anything in his life. His value when won Seoul were 12.8 of Hgb, and 41 of Hct. May be you don´t believe that with similar values you can win Olympic, but this is the true, and is one of the example because I don´t believe in doping for strong athletes in long distances.

This is a fact, not an opinion.

Really, the mom of morons always is pregnant.

Renato Canova wrote: Really, the mom of morons always is pregnant.

That quote's a keeper! :-)

Thanks for the grin, Renato. And thanks much for the ealier insight.

good stuff. thanks

Jason:

I do hope she'd do well. But, if I'd have to put my money on someone, I'd put it on Shimahara, although she'd usually do better on a hot day marathon (like WC or Olympics) so I hope it's not going to hinder her chance at Nagoya. I'd say you probably have more access to what Takahashi had been doing and is doing right now and I do hope you're right about her training approach.

Renato Canova wrote:

Really, the mom of morons always is pregnant.

the best quote on letsrun, ever.

No, this is the best quote on LetsRun.com

RE: Ethiopians and Drug testing conspiracy theorists 3/2/2008 2:47PM - in reply to Renato Canova

Janko Bensa wrote:

"You might be write when you say that Susan Chepkemei was suspende taking cought medecine. I feel sorry for that, I wish they caught her when she was doing EPO. She still didn't get what she deserves.

I have been keeping my mouth closed for years, but I had to respond on your posting since I can't stand anyone defending people doing drugs for years.

I happened to stay with Susan in the same house in 2004. At that time there were only my family (my wife and 2 years old child, both of which are not athletes), I and Susan at the house. Not to mention that one day in the fridge my two year old accidently found around 15 injections 10000IU of EPO each. When owner of the house, who was on long vacation, came back and discovered the same thing in the fridge, asked Susan to take her "staff" somewhere else and also asked her to leave the house. For those five weeks Susan made about $40000-$50000 running races in USA.

So, please stop defending her."

I already replied to your post, several days ago, but everything was cancelled by the site.

If you know something that I don´t know, you have reason in writing what you write. But my answer was not for defending Susan Chepkemei, BUT FOR SHOWING THAT THE REASON BECAUSE SHE WAS POSITIVE NOW WAS WRONG.

You cannot put in jail somebody for an action that is not wrong, because in the past you had some other wrong action that was not possible to prove.

I repeat : I know very well the case of Lydia Cheromei, she was positive to some doping when she was already pregnant from 2 months (the best proof is that she had the baby after 7 months). So, do you think that she was under doping for enhancing her performances, or she took some substance, not allowed. because her doctor gave, due to reasons of health during her pregnancy ?

I NEVER said that all the athletes are clean. I ALWAYS say that, due to my experience, I DON´T BELIEVE THAT A TOP CHAMPION CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE FROM DOPING IN EVENTS OF ENDURANCE (while, for example, I know that, in events where the strenght is the most important component, we have no doubt that you can have a lot of advantages, is enough to look at the results in throwing during the last 20 years, or in the results for women activity).

So, please, stop speaking about what you don´t know (like, for example, Bordin), and to think that Im not honest, or stupid. My position is very clear : is not possible t6hat EPO can give advantages of 40-70 seconds to a runner of 10k, if I have 6 atghletes able running between 26´30 and 26´52, and, in my opinion, without reaching their top limits, because they had a short career (see Nicholas Kemboi) with their FULL mental concentration in professional running.

I don't want to hear about your mom, you pompous gasbag. You're no better than any of the other clueless Pollyannas in denial over what doping can do for endurance events. Frank Shorter would laugh heartily at your naivete. Go blow Gabby Rosa.

Of course Renato has the balls to post under his real name while other hide behind monikers. Who seems more honest?

nate jenkins