What happened to Jordan McDougal this year?

He sucks. Simple and plan

overtraining. same with josh mcdougal.

They both need to get out of Liberty and join a decent program. I have no idea why they attend such a subpar school. Why can't they practice religion on their own? If they really want to bring glory to God then they'll develop their talent, which means they'd have to leave Liberty to give themselves the greatest chance to succeed.

Beating everyone's ass at the Lou Onesty Invite might be good for the ego and good pub for Liberty; but Jimmers and co. need to hold these horses in the barn a little longer. These guys are doing their best racing in October when it needs to be done in late November.

i think it is because they run 17 miles a day in singles. that is just stupid and will wear anyone out.

THis is silly. Josh Mcdougal has gotten 13th and 4th place as a freshman and sophomore and until this year has not lost a single cross country race prior to the national meet (this year he only lost one). He has qualified for World cross...on the men's team....in the FOUR KILO...beating top-tier professional American runners like Alan Webb. I believe that race is held after normal "peaking time" for collegiate.

Last year, he ran very close to 23 flat for the 8k beating 2nd by I believe 25 seconds...that was very close to the national meet (and I don't think getting beat only by the defending national champion, the prolific and successful 2 time indoor 3k and 1 time 5k national champion and Kiplagat to take 4th as a true sophomore, or taking 13th as a true freshman is anything someone could call a sub-par performance).

It's funny how he has one race at the national meet that is below what he's been doing all year (not unlike about 75 percent of that field on that day), and people are ready to jump all over him and his training philosophies (which up to this point seem to have been working EXTREMELY well for him).

Jordan Mcdougal is a 23:45 buy, a JR WORLD XC qualifier and is so close to sub 8 for 3k and sub 14 for 5k...he's also younger than chris rombough, just having started school a year before the rest of his HS class. It's obviously unfortunate he did not make the individual qualifier, but how many other athletes of that caliber have we seen go through the exact same thing?

I just think it's wildly unfair to look for minute things to judge them on, in what have otherwise been extremely successful collegiate careers. I don't think being one of the most consistantly successful ncaa xc runners ever (Josh) or being one of the top runners in his age group (Jordan) is an ode to anything BUT a successful training program.

I'm not gonna say he sucks or anything like that, but I agree he should hold back a LOT more until Nationals. He races all out at early October meets. He should try and save himself for when it matters. Winning Pre-nats is cool, but winning nationals is what it's all about.

Well put and in perspective - especially the "...75% of field" comment. thanx.

It is also funny how other threads are ripping Wisco for not racing all out enough, and this one is ripping McDougal for racing too much all out. Tough crowd.

Guppy wrote:

I'm not gonna say he sucks or anything like that, but I agree he should hold back a LOT more until Nationals. He races all out at early October meets. He should try and save himself for when it matters. Winning Pre-nats is cool, but winning nationals is what it's all about.

who says he's going all out in oct?

just because he's stomping your ass by 2minutes and setting course records?

that's part of his NORMAL buildup

which way wrote:

It is also funny how other threads are ripping Wisco for not racing all out enough, and this one is ripping McDougal for racing too much all out. Tough crowd.

Yeah...obviously no one has heard the phrase "Any Given Sunday." At thislevel of competition, how can you not expect the occasional upset?

Chris Hall-

Watch the flocast interviews of McDougal. He says, "this makes the entire season a failure." One race can and does make all the difference. When an athlete destroys the competition all "regular" season and loses all the time in the "playoffs," then they are questioned-----for good reason.

I place a lot on McDougal's assessment of himself. He says, "We'll need to look at our training and make adjustments." He knows full well that things are not going well at Liberty. I am sure that he's not ready to give up on Liberty, but if you see the competition ready when it counts (NCAAs), and you are not----then you ask yourself, "Why?"

Even if you want to continue on your thought process about Josh McDougal, what about Jordan McDougal? At one point he had become an athlete who was about 2 steps off of his older brother. Now, he is finishing 32nd at his weak regional. What gives?

We could say, "32nd at a DI regional is pretty darn good." It is, but it is a terrible result for somebody like Jordan McDougal.

In my opinion, an athlete should ALWAYS be ready for their biggest competitions---ALWAYS. If they aren't then something went wrong. Certainly, there will be people who run poorly when it counts----THIS IS ALWAYS A FAILURE. In my experience this is typically a coaching failure.

When athletes ALWAYS run poorly (for them) at the biggest competions, they there is a pattern/epidemic of poor preparation. That is what is going on at Liberty.

This is also what goes on at many other institutions. Look at Minnesota, NC State, Duke (women), etc. These programs consistently do well when is doesn't count and poorly when it does. Like McDougal was after nationals, these folks are disappointed when they underpeform---rightly so.

I'm a fan. I'm not on here to rail these kids, just question the volume of racing they've done. Again, racing the Lou Onesty Invite is not helping Liberty. Didn't they look around and notice that no W&M "A" teamers and no UVA "A" teamers were there. Granted Liberty has no depth; but if you want run with the best in the region, might not hurt to take a look at how they prepare for Regionals.

Nice time for girls wrote:

When athletes ALWAYS run poorly (for them) at the biggest competions, they there is a pattern/epidemic of poor preparation. That is what is going on at Liberty.

You see, the problem with your assessment is that, up until this one, single race, he has always run very well (completely up to potential...the div 1 ncaa xc race is the most difficult thing for a collegiate distance runner to win), and a large percentage of the field shared a similar disappointment to his on monday. Saying he "ALWAYS runs poorly," is probably the most impious, untrue--actually downright silly--thing I have heard on these boards in a long time (though you have a history of being unreasonably critical of mcdougal on this board). Anyone who gets the impression you got from his flocast video (a video that was taken immediately after a race that, yes, I am sure was disappointing and emotional), must be as pessimistic and codescending in thier worldview as you seem. He roughly said--and this is the part that should stand out the most to people--"This is like my footlocker regional race my junior year. I didn't make it and it was disappointing and hard, but I went on to have the best track season of my life right afterwards."

These things happen in running and they're emotional and difficult and they're just not fun at all--to not meet your own expectations on a given day. Good athletes, good students, good people, however....they all learn from disappointment...and grow stronger from disappointment. We're all tested at some point, man. I HIGHLY doubt (though I guess I do not know for sure, because I am not him, but I still highly doubt it)that he has suddenly become VERY cynical and skeptical of the liberty program that has worked so tremendously well throughout his collegiate running career (he won every race except for nationals as a true freshman and a as a sophomore...has only lost 4 xc races ever...I know of few others in NCAA xc history, let alone contemporary NCAA xc who can say as much of themselves and he still has another year left) because of a single major disappointment.

I'm sure he's aware of the phrase "Faith without works is dead," and since he has been a living, walking, breathing example of that motto up to this point (look at the character an determination he illustrates through his training), I'm sure he will continue. I'll be willing to bet we see a MUCH stronger, faster and more tough Josh Mcdougal in the seasons to come (scary isn't it?).

Btw...sorry for any typos.

Mr. Hall-

I am a fan of McDougal's. I hope he continues his mission for success. If he wants to stay at Liberty, fine, but he needs an independent coach then.

I am not reading more into his words than he is speaking. He feels that he should have won the DI NCAA meet. I agree. He feels that anything but winning that meet was a failure. For him, I agree.

When an athlete has a history of expecting to win the big one and failing to win the big one, they either have unrealistic expectations or bad coaching-------I believe that McDougal is realistic to think that he should be winning the big ones.

What exactly are you defending?

The McDougals are excellent runners---isn't that established? They are excellent runners who are having NCAA careers that are worse than they deserve---isn't this established? So what then?

Are you saying that Liberty has a good program? Are you saying that the coaching is appropriate? Are you saying that it is bad luck that the McDs are underperforming?

Interesting debate.

I don't know if I agree that it is always a coaching problem when runners do not perform well at "the big one". Running is a very singular activity with alot on the line only a few times a year. I am a fan of running and love to see young americans running hard and fast but I don't know if I have heard about McDougal winning a championship caliber race yet in his career. I could be wrong there, and if I am someone will surely call me on it. People crack under pressure alot, its difficult to lay an entire summers worth of work and an season on one race and it puts a ton of pressure on oneself when they look at it that way.

Champions overcome the pressure of being a favorite, but then again there are alot more people who aren't champions...

Jordan is a great runner in his own right but unfortuantly or fortuantly his brother is Josh.It seems to me Jordan races great when he can run with Josh.When it's time for Josh to Rock and Roll Jordan can not keep up with him and he then just run's hard but does not race.In my estimation the training or coaching is not the problem with Jordan.

Now in regards to Josh I think this kid just hammers to much in training and races to often in the fall.Before we say that the coaching is the problem perhaps the client has a fool for a coach, meaning Josh by and large coaches himself?

I don't know this to be true but he gives all indications of doing his own thing.I should know I was once a runner/fool in college who basically coached himself.More is better, more is great in everything training,racing etc....hahaha

You know, I don't mean to be overly confrontational, so I'm sorry if I come off that way, but it is very difficult to take someone seriously when they claim to be a "fan of mcdougal's," saying that, "I feel he should have won NCAAs," on this thread, after predicting him to DNF, belittling his spiritual principles, and calling him, quote-for-quote, a "has-been" and a "burn-out" on countless other threads. It is very clearly what I am defending and what I am saying. Don't pretend to be someone you're not ismply to enforce your own point of view.

And forgive me for the typos.