He is the man to stop Farah as both of them are 3.28 1500 pb guys
He is the man to stop Farah as both of them are 3.28 1500 pb guys
kipkoech wrote:
He is the man to stop Farah as both of them are 3.28 1500 pb guys
Again I don't think Farah is running the 5k this year.
800ftw. wrote:
kipkoech wrote:He is the man to stop Farah as both of them are 3.28 1500 pb guys
Again I don't think Farah is running the 5k this year.
No one can stop Sir Mo at 5000m or 10,000m!!!
https://www.instagram.com/p/BTZqwvhAe_4/?taken-by=gomofarahhttps://www.instagram.com/p/BTs07-XAgq3/?taken-by=gomofarahSir Mo is now in GoMoâ„¢ mode.
Sir Mo is not pudgy at all now and is ready to destroy the world at 5000m and 10,000m in 2017.
This is not good news for Mr. Kwemoi and all other 5000m and 10,000m runners.
I am sorry about that.
Based on his Instagram, Mo is doing Marathon training.
I see a 2:04 in the future.
GR wrote:
Based on his Instagram, Mo is doing Marathon training.
I see a 2:04 in the future.
Only if he has a phalanx of pacers throughout 100% of the marathon distance, trailing a car with a gigantic wall clock, on a flat formula one track, while wearing a dopey chilled hat after a week of l-carnitine infusions.
Coach Renato, thank you for taking the time to share this with us.Also what do you think of this?http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8169586
Renato Canova wrote:
Ronald started his training after going back Kenya from Japan, at the beginning of January. He had a contract with one Japanese Club, that terminated on 1st April, but already informed the Club itself about his willing to terminate it : if you want to be one of the top 3 in the world on track, you can't follow the system of Japanese Clubs, where training conditions for track, and possibility to frequently run at top level, don't exist.
In Iten, he is followed on daily basis, by myself personally when I'm there (for example, from the beginning of January till 10th April, when I went Boston) or by my assistant coach, John Litei (formerly bronze medal for 800m in Commonwealth Games 2006), of course following my programs, that never include training plans longer than 2 weeks, since we need to prepare technical strategies, in their particulars, looking at the real situation, not at the theorical level we supposed an athlete can reach in a long term program, without knowing too many facts that are out of our control at the time of the proposal (bad weather, family problems, injuries, sicknesses, days of training cancelled for going Nairobi in some Embassy for Visas, etc...).
The global strategy is based on two foundamental goals : to increase the aerobic power, using also sessions of long run at moderate and fast pace, and, at the same time, to develop the SPEED ENDURANCE with big volumes of medium-fast tests on track.
In my project, according my experiences and my mentality, an AEROBIC ANIMAL like Ronald needs to work on a wide range of solutions, and needs to cancel every kind of FRIGHT about volume of training and length of the distances, making normal in his life a type of training including different type of training.
The volume of km he normally run every week can vary from 180 and 210, depending on the week. We don't use classic microcycles, or a "symmetric system", with some type of training repeated every week in the same days (for example, track on Tuesday, fartlek on Thursday, long run on Saturday), but a detailed plan, with different number of days of recovery, depending on the intensity of the workouts.
I can give some example of training, starting from March :
Wed, 1 : 6 x 1600m in 4'41"5 - 4'37"1 - 4'37"0 - 4'35"5 - 4'36"0 - 4'36"6 with 2'30" recovery
Mon, 6 : 10 km in 30'22" (15'13" + 15'09")
Wed, 8 : 2 x 3000 in 8'49"3 - 8'57"0 + 3 x 2000m in 5'56"5 - 5'50"9 - 5'54"2 (rec, 2'30") + 3 x 1000 in 2'53"2 - 2'52"2 - 2'51"6 (rec. 2')
Fri, 10 : 10 km in 30'39" (afternoon)
Sun, 12 : Track of tartan in Iten : 30 x 200m (rec. 200m jogging in 1'05" / 1'15") in : 27" - 26"7 - 26"6 - 28" - 27" - 27"4 - 26"8 - 27"5 - 27"1 - 27"3 - 26"8 - 27"3 - 26"9 - 27"3 - 26"5 - 27"5 - 26"8 - 27" - 26"7 - 27"5 - 26"5 - 27"9 - 26"2 - 28" - 25"9 - 27"7 - 25"7 - 28"2 - 26" - 23"3
In this training, the 200m slower were paced by Noah Kipkemboi, a new guy working with Ronald and very good in long distances, the faster by Ronald. I asked to run fast the last 200m, and he closed in 23"3, showing that is able to maintain a high level of speed also when the goal of training is to increase the long endurance.
On Wed, 15, I put him together with Marathon runners like Geoffrey Kirui (winner of Boston) and Abel Kirui (winner of Chicago last year), for a special block with 41 km in the day, with these workouts :
Morning : 10 km in 32'41" + 10 km in 30'15"
Afternoon : 10 km in 33'40" + 7 x 1000m on track (rec. 1'30") in 2'56" - 2'58" - 2'55"6 - 2'55" - 2'54"2 - 2'56"3 - 2'51"5
Sat, 18 : 2 x 10 x 400m (rec. among the sets 8') with rec. in between 1', in : 61" - 64"4 - 63"1 - 65"1 - 62"1 - 63"2 - 62"9 - 62"8 - 63"6 - 63"6 (this first set with training shoes) -
The second sets using spikes : 61"2 - 61"7 - 61"8 - 61"3 - 61"1 - 61"3 - 61" - 60" - 59"4 - 55"
Tue, 21 : 6 x 1000m (rec. 2'45") in 2'38"1 - 2'37" - 2'39"3 - 2'38"1 - 2'36"3 - 2'37"3. Rest of 6' - 4 x 300m (rec. 30"/38") in : 42"8 - 42"3 - 41" - 41"3
Ronald went Japan for 10 days for finishing the documents necessary for the termination of the contract (and for receiving the remaining money that the Club had to give him). The last day of the contract he ran in Kumamoto the Kanaguri Memorial in 5000m, winning in 13'24"42 as training, with the last 200m in 24"8.
Now these are the main sessions in April :
Sun, 9 : 25 km on hilly course in 1 h 31'40" (average 3'40")
Tue, 11 : 10 x 1200m (rec. 2') in : 3'23"6 - 3'26"1 - 3'23"1 - 3'24" - 3'24"1 - 3'23"4 - 3'26"3 - 3'25"4 - 3'21"6 - 3'21"4. After 6' rest, 600m in 1'22"3
Thu, 13 : 30 km in 1 h 40'24" (average 3'21"/km)
Sat, 15 : 5 x 600 (rec. 1' + 1'30" + 2' + 2'30") in : 1'33"2 - 1'33"4 - 1'28"5 - 1'27"6 - 1'24"1
Tue, 18 (afternoon) : 3 x 2000m (rec. 3') in 5'40"2 - 5'32"5 - 5'38"9
Rest 5' - 10 x 400m (rec. 1') in : 59"2 - 62"0 - 61"1 - 58"9 - 59"7 - 59"7 - 58"7 - 59"2 - 60" - 53"1
Thu, 20 : 1 h Fartlek (20 times 1'/1' + 20 times 30"/30") (18,840 km)
Thu, 27 : 5 x 1200m (rec. 2'45") in 3'15"2 - 3'15"1 - 3'12"3 - 3'14" - 3'13"1
Rest 6' - 5 x 600m (rec. 2'45") in 1'25"4 - 1'27"5 - 1'29"2 - 1'28"8 - 1'29"7
(legs very tired)
Sat, 29 : 1 h moderate + 8 km in 23'52"
Mon, 1.05 (last workout before Doha) : 10 x 400m (rec. 2'30") in :
55"3 - 54"3 - 55"5 - 54"2 - 54"3 - 54"9 - 55" - 55"1 - 54"2 - 53"1
How it's possible to see, the speed on track becomes faster step by step, but we are still far from the SPECIFIC SPEED ENDURANCE TRAINING.
The next competition will be the Mile, in Eugene, on 27th May (Prefontaine).
kipkoech wrote:
Are you able to view the article??
I cannot view the document
Gerschler and Reindell were from Germany, and in Germany everything must be "EXACT"... but if they lived in Kenya, of sure they had to cancel this word from their dictionary.
You can't have any exact long term plan, when there are a lot of situations (external to training) that you can't have under your control.
Especially about WEATHER (when there is the rain period, there are a lot of workouts you can't do, or, if you want to do, that increase the risk of injuries, since they run on muddy roads, very slippery, and you can't have EXACT previews day by day. And about personal problems : I never had some top runner who was not forced to go home for some sudden family problem, and he was the only one able to find the solution.
Another thing : don't forget Gerschler worked with athletes of short distances in track, where the EXACT times are part of the knowledge athletes need for running at their top level. But, when we coach athletes for more long distances, we must at first to increase their feeling with pain and fatigue, and to give the ability to change speed during every part of the competition, inside their physiological limit, that in training is not possible to know.
I try to better explain what I say.
When you run a competition of 800m, you must, in any case, to run at high lactic level, and it's not difficult to have EXACT feeling with the level of fatigue in your body. When in training, for example, you run 600m at your max effort, you use the same speed you want to run in the race, so it's not difficult to have, from training, DIRECT INDICATIONS about the performance you can produce in the race, since the difference in the DURATION is not very high (less than 30").
But when you run a marathon, in training NEVER you run longer than 30 km at the same speed of the race. This means you have still to run 35' - 40' at the same level, and the limiting factor is not the level of lactate (that you can know and control), but the quantity of fuel "SUPER" still remaining in the tank (that you can't know and can't control). The human engine doesn't have the SPY of fuel, indicating you are in reserve, but is the individual feeling athletes have with the level of fatigue which is the pointer of the balance.
For a runner, is very much easier to understand a pace very similar the max individual possibilities, than a pace far from the maximal speed.
Ask, for example, to some athlete of 1'44" to run 5 km at 3'20" pace, and you see how far from that pace he runs, and how difficult for him is to maintain an EVEN and EXACT pace, very far from his normal biomechanical action.
Under this point of view, I'm EXACTLY the opposite of your philosophy : I think nothing can be exact in training.
For me, training is not an INDUCTIVE SCIENCE, like mat, where we create the theoretical plan, and athletes have to follow. This is good when we want to send a rocket on the Moon, but is not what we have to do when we work with subjects in continue evolution.
Training is a DEDUCTIVE SCIENCE, and we need to update on daily basis the COMBINED ACTION of the training plan, the situation of life of the athlete (who is not only an athlete, but a PERSON, with all the problems of every other person), the external situations that we can't control, but we have to undergo. ALL THESE ELEMENTS are part of training, and this is the reason because it's not possible to have any EXACT plan, in practice.
He clearly has alot of speed and endurance, a perfect miler. I think he can break El Gs WRs, and run a sub 12:50 5k.
Will he double at worlds, the 1500 is clearly still his best event, but he can also win the 5k, exspecially in a championship with a slow first 3k.
coach j.s wrote:
Hi Renato! You are one of the mainly 4 great coaches in history who have "contributed" to my own invented training system called DANCAN. The coaches are you,Jack Daniels, Arthur Lydiard and a coach that is mostly forgotten nowadays....Woldemar Goerschler back in 1930-th. Of course your system of training is one of the greatest ways to train.....no doubt about that with all fantastic runners you have coached.......but.....my only "reservation" is the same as Goerschler once got the question why he didn`t like "Fartlek".....He answered : "It`s not EXACT...". When I look at the examples of Kwemoi`s and all other examples from the past you so good have given ,my own analysis is that it can be done even more balanced to the individual runner and more .....yes,now my favourite word comes again, "EXACT" :)
You are a liar and a fraud.
I got the whole document. Wow. Thanks.
kipkoech wrote:
Are you able to view the article??
What pace are those 10ks? Tempo?
kipkoech wrote:
Are you able to view the article??
Unfortunately, no. It won't open for me.
On the previous page, click the words "google docs."
Renato Canova wrote:
Gerschler and Reindell were from Germany, and in Germany everything must be "EXACT"... but if they lived in Kenya, of sure they had to cancel this word from their dictionary.
You can't have any exact long term plan, when there are a lot of situations (external to training) that you can't have under your control.
Especially about WEATHER (when there is the rain period, there are a lot of workouts you can't do, or, if you want to do, that increase the risk of injuries, since they run on muddy roads, very slippery, and you can't have EXACT previews day by day. And about personal problems : I never had some top runner who was not forced to go home for some sudden family problem, and he was the only one able to find the solution.
Another thing : don't forget Gerschler worked with athletes of short distances in track, where the EXACT times are part of the knowledge athletes need for running at their top level. But, when we coach athletes for more long distances, we must at first to increase their feeling with pain and fatigue, and to give the ability to change speed during every part of the competition, inside their physiological limit, that in training is not possible to know.
I try to better explain what I say.
When you run a competition of 800m, you must, in any case, to run at high lactic level, and it's not difficult to have EXACT feeling with the level of fatigue in your body. When in training, for example, you run 600m at your max effort, you use the same speed you want to run in the race, so it's not difficult to have, from training, DIRECT INDICATIONS about the performance you can produce in the race, since the difference in the DURATION is not very high (less than 30").
But when you run a marathon, in training NEVER you run longer than 30 km at the same speed of the race. This means you have still to run 35' - 40' at the same level, and the limiting factor is not the level of lactate (that you can know and control), but the quantity of fuel "SUPER" still remaining in the tank (that you can't know and can't control). The human engine doesn't have the SPY of fuel, indicating you are in reserve, but is the individual feeling athletes have with the level of fatigue which is the pointer of the balance.
For a runner, is very much easier to understand a pace very similar the max individual possibilities, than a pace far from the maximal speed.
Ask, for example, to some athlete of 1'44" to run 5 km at 3'20" pace, and you see how far from that pace he runs, and how difficult for him is to maintain an EVEN and EXACT pace, very far from his normal biomechanical action.
Under this point of view, I'm EXACTLY the opposite of your philosophy : I think nothing can be exact in training.
For me, training is not an INDUCTIVE SCIENCE, like mat, where we create the theoretical plan, and athletes have to follow. This is good when we want to send a rocket on the Moon, but is not what we have to do when we work with subjects in continue evolution.
Training is a DEDUCTIVE SCIENCE, and we need to update on daily basis the COMBINED ACTION of the training plan, the situation of life of the athlete (who is not only an athlete, but a PERSON, with all the problems of every other person), the external situations that we can't control, but we have to undergo. ALL THESE ELEMENTS are part of training, and this is the reason because it's not possible to have any EXACT plan, in practice.
Most excellent explanation. Forgive me to correct you on one thing: "Inductive" means inexact, and "Deductive" means exact. You got them backwards in your explanation.
Coaching and training is both an art and a science. There are only a few who are comfortable balancing art and science to achieve a result.
Thanks Renato!
I really like your insights.
It's fascinating to hear how ELITE athletes train.
The training I do to run a
Thank you Renato! Everyone here loves your insights (aside from a few annoying/ignorant people bringing up drugs). Anything you have to add to Letsrun is greatly appreciated and is extremely interesting for us interested in training of elite athletes. Much thanks!
Great stuff Renato, as always. You have listed the main workouts for a couple of the periods. Can you tell us what he did on those days not listed?
For example, if there are 3 days between big workouts, is it typically two runs a day of 10-15km the other days?
Do you give a full day of rest every 14-21 days?
Thanks
PS. It has been a brutally cold and wet Spring in Canada, so all you warm weather guys be grateful.
Renato, hi. Thanks for your input. I'm not sure if you're aware, but a revolutionary training technique that is used by a coach of a professional group here recently became known. I'm not sure if you've been keeping up with the threads on here, but what the coach does is at the ends of workouts he farts in his athletes' faces to simulate oxygen debt at the end of a race. Some of the athletes are racing much better as a result and some have not appreciated the gas.
Have you event experimented with doing this to your athletes? what are your thoughts on this technique?
Before using this technique, I need to know which are the effects, directly from the "actors" of this technique.
For example, do you use to fart in the face of your teammates ? I think that some of them can really appreciate, some other maybe not, but you have still to work (like the coach of the professional group) for using different gas, depending on the event.
Can be the product of beans more useful for lactic workouts, or for long distances ? How you can see, we need to have more deep scientific studies on the effects of farting, specifically the difference in the gas composition between the fart of a gentleman and the fart of an arsehole.