All-time Time Machine Championship Results - Men's 1500m

Janice Lean wrote:

OP has no system. He is a racist moran who knows nothing about track. Deliberately left off three of four white dudes who clearly deserve to be on the list. Even the French dude he included is African.

Deliberately left off white dudes? Sorry if I'm not over-rating runners that are my ethnicity, I just dont understand what four you are talking about that could make these finals.

portsea57 wrote:

Well, Elliott. of course, has to be treated as a special case.

1) He only ran internationally for two seasons 1958 and 1960.

2) You could almost say that he took 1959 off.

3) He retired at 22., and at that age, either Coe, Ovett or Cram or El Guerrouj , had won a Olympic/World title or had broken a world record.

If Elliott had been a full-time athlete God only knows what he could have done.

Because of his lack of consistent training, Elliott arrived in Rome. and only improved his 1958 1500m best by 0.4 sec which is no improvement at all. Indeed, Elliott, because of lack of preparation, was not as good in 1960 as he was, as a 20yr old, in 1958.

If ever there was a miler/1500m runner with a "what if" hanging over his head, it's Elliott.

I agree! Huge what if - and it's hard to justify a what-if making a finals that are supposed to be based ok most likely outcomes. Elliot is definitely in the conversation, but I can't see how one could say he's more likely than not beat anyone that made the final.

formerbosox9yo wrote:

Deliberately left off white dudes? Sorry if I'm not over-rating runners that are my ethnicity, I just dont understand what four you are talking about that could make these finals.

Let's see...Cram, Coe, Ryun, and Herb have all been suggested, but you seem to have consesused the list without any help from others.

Cinders, my friend. Cinders...

Pervnert wrote:

formerbosox9yo wrote:

Deliberately left off white dudes? Sorry if I'm not over-rating runners that are my ethnicity, I just dont understand what four you are talking about that could make these finals.

Let's see...Cram, Coe, Ryun, and Herb have all been suggested, but you seem to have consesused the list without any help from others.

Cinders, my friend. Cinders...

Just because they are white doesn't mean they can touch the likes of mahk daddy! Did you see the 2012 olympics? Coe is from the drug era and those other guys had no competition and shoddy timing.

formerbosox9yo wrote:

Welsh Wizard wrote:

Shows you know even less about 1500m than 800m, which is saying something.

You hav 2 convicted dopers on that list, which means their names should definitely be removed.

There is another who had a positive A sample, 2 whose form dropped considerably when their coaches were under scrutiny, and most of the others had careers that suggest likely doping.

I acknowledge there are dopers in the time machine meet, proven or otherwise.

I'm trying hard to find one on the list who isn't?

This list is crap without Coe, Ovett, Cram and Ryun.

In other words Aouita would overdose on EPO the moment he stepped outside the time machine, whereas Coe would be clean. Also, the aspie OP doesn't seem.to realize Coe and Aouita had almost parallel careers, except when Coe was breaking WRs, Aouita hadn't gone on the sauce yet, and when he did, dodged Coe religiously.

Why don't you just be honest and rename your posts 'all time best rocket fuelled Africans (no whites allowed)'?

nikeman wrote:

This list is crap without Coe, Ovett, Cram and Ryun.

It sucks some of my favorites dont make it either.

Coevett wrote:

formerbosox9yo wrote:

Aouita and Coe had a bit different competition, drugs, era, tracks, conditions etc. You have to compare more than just pr and medals, and measure how they will do against all-time fields.

Kipligat was left off all-time Kenya. Like the Olympics, only 3 per country. Kipligat would definitely be in final and could contend for win if countries could enter more than 3.

In other words Aouita would overdose on EPO the moment he stepped outside the time machine, whereas Coe would be clean. Also, the aspie OP doesn't seem.to realize Coe and Aouita had almost parallel careers, except when Coe was breaking WRs, Aouita hadn't gone on the sauce yet, and when he did, dodged Coe religiously.

Why don't you just be honest and rename your posts 'all time best rocket fuelled Africans (no whites allowed)'?

Whites are allowed... look at the other events so far. The fact of the matter is, these 12 are the runners who would most likely make the time machine 1500m final. I can't control how good runners of certain continents are.

I think we all need to thank formerbotox9yo. His time machine kicked out a list (that he obviously had no control over) and has been graciously listening to suggestions about how it can be improved. I for one appreciate the changes he has made to the list in light of several informed contributions. He really knows how to bring folks together and create a consensus. Well done, my friend. Well done.

Bakersfield, June 23, 1967.

Anyone who watches this race and doesn't understand how impressive and dominating it was is not fit to be on LRC. And it was on cinders. Solo.

I guess I can see Kiplagat not making the Kenyan team over Lagat, Kiprop and Ngeny.

But 3 Moroccans in this file and no one from Great Britain?

Think of the records and champions won by Coe, Cram and Ovett, but Iguider makes this final and none of them.

formerbosox9yo wrote:

The times and results are adjusted accordingly for likelihood of doping and other factors such as weather, track, era, etc etc. This time machine meet puts all runners in history on a level playing field (or track in this case).

Why not try to prove your system with a real world example. There is a Diamond League event in Zurich on the 30th August. Pick one of the events - 400m men, 5000m women, whatever - and feed the athlete's data into your time machine and predict the results. The probability of success should be greater as track and shoe technology is a non factor, as is any correction for running era.

Watch this:

https://youtu.be/8COaMKbNrX0

Raddison wrote:

formerbosox9yo wrote:

The times and results are adjusted accordingly for likelihood of doping and other factors such as weather, track, era, etc etc. This time machine meet puts all runners in history on a level playing field (or track in this case).

Why not try to prove your system with a real world example. There is a Diamond League event in Zurich on the 30th August. Pick one of the events - 400m men, 5000m women, whatever - and feed the athlete's data into your time machine and predict the results. The probability of success should be greater as track and shoe technology is a non factor, as is any correction for running era.

That doesn't make any sense. It would have to factor in rate of improvement/degression, potential injuries, etc etc. For time machine track meet we are taking athletes at their absolute peak, and are considering all factors (which we know because it happened). Too many unknowns for the Zurich meet. We just dont know who is battling injuries, who is having great training, etc etc. What we can do, is in retrospect take the results from the Zurich meet (once we have all those factors) and republish the Zurich results for what would most likely happen if the races were run a second time.

No. Guess. You’ve barely changed any of your picks yet you call it consensus. If you think you’re so good at comparing athletes in head-to-head matchups, then prove it. You have just as much information to work with.

Its totally different analysis - projecting where an athlete will be vs. where they already were. I also can't project Zurichs conditions, but I can tell you who would win between bolt and bromell if they raced at their peaks in the same conditions, and likely times for average conditions.

I am happy to make adjustments. Problem is most responses dont support with facts and it's just opinions with no support behind them. I'm not adding coe to finals because he is white and won a bunch of races against nobody's. show to me he even has a chance against mak daddy.

Sand Dunes wrote:

Watch this:

https://youtu.be/8COaMKbNrX0

Great video, thanks for posting.

Can you read? I didn’t say anything about Bolt or Bromell. I didn’t say anything about Coe or Makhloufi. I told you to guess.

You were arrogant enough to believe you could determine a final for the greatest all-time athletes. You were arrogant enough to believe you could put times down to the hundredth of a second for these races. You were arrogant enough to believe you could conceive of an imaginary average that could predict an all-time race.

So go ahead and guess already. I’m waiting. If you don’t have at least the will to make a simple prediction and submit yourself to criticism, then I’d prefer if you stopped making stupid statements.