Deer Daphne Schippers: no one thinks you are on steroids.

Follow the Letsrun rules

Run fast don't fail a dope test = DOPER

Run fast fail a dope test, come up with a silly excuse, be American = CLEAN

Typing Dynamos wrote:

Are you saying she was only doping for that one meet? Or every race?

Felix, who you think is clean, had shaved off just about the same time off her personal best from when she was 17 (22.83) till when she was 22 (21.81) than Dafne did from 18 (2 months from 17) 22.69 to when she was 23 (21.63). The difference is only .04 seconds.

Felix 17 - 22.83

Felix 22 - 21.81

Dafne 18 - 22.69

Dafne 23 - 21.63

So if Felix is clean then why is Dafne dirty. Dafne's PR's only improved after she focused on sprinting from when she was barely 18. Which makes total sense.

Why are you doctoring the facts ?

If you consider Schippers to be 18 yrs old in 2011 when she ran her 22"69, then Felix was 17 when she ran her 22"11 (17yrs old and 7 months to be exact) and 16 when she ran the 22"83, you're pointing out (16yrs old and 8 months).

Schippers was already 19 past a few month, when she ran her 22"69 in 2011, since it was down in Daegu in September (She was born in June 1992).

Felix 17 : 22"11

Dafne 19 : 22"69

So using real logic Felix went from 22"11 at 17 to 21"81 at 23. Nowhere close to the kind of progression shown by Schippers.

I don't even think that Felix is clean, I never really trusted her,despite of the talent she showed early.

I mean look at the all time youth & junior ranking list in the female 200m that she tops, it is absolutely littered with dopers, who for the large majority never managed to run in the 21"

I was wrong by one year, so thank you for correcting me on that.

My point is still the same.

in 5 years Allison from from 22.83 in 2002 to 21.81 in 2007, 1.02 seconds faster.

In 4 years, Dafne went from 22.69 in 2011 to 21.63, 1.06 seconds faster.

Felix - 2002 - 22.83

Felix - 2007 - 21.81

Dafne - 2011 - 22.69

Dafne - 2015 - 21.63

So unless Dafne just started doping in 2014, when she finally started to concentrate only on sprinting and finally bettered her PR, her and Felix have a very similiar difference in times from when they were teenagers to when they were adults.

Dafne was training for other events, which slowed her down in the sprints, so her Hept training didn't hurt her potential or ability at the springs, but didn't help her times.

The difference is about 1 year and .04 seconds.

My point is the same.

If you think Felix isn't doping, how can you say Dafne is?

BTW, I am not Dutch, and Felix is one of my all time fav athletes. But that has nothing to do with this.

I'm not interested in the sprint events, so didn't know who this was or look at this thread until now, but looked at the OP's article and the photos last night, and must say that I find the situation to be another appalling example of the travesties that are happening in women's events, and there needs to be a stop put to them.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/07/26/20/42B3611400000578-4733220-image-a-49_1501096892392.jpg

Clearly no one on this thread has been to Holland. Dutch women are genetically "big". And not in an American fat way. Just big muscles and tall. Dutch women are the tallest women in the world and they are thick.So you guys are telling me because a woman has muscles she must be a "he"? Really?

Another appalling situation wrote:

I'm not interested in the sprint events, so didn't know who this was or look at this thread until now, but looked at the OP's article and the photos last night, and must say that I find the situation to be another appalling example of the travesties that are happening in women's events, and there needs to be a stop put to them.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/07/26/20/42B3611400000578-4733220-image-a-49_1501096892392.jpg

Fallacious Crumb wrote:

Classic move by Daphne here. She produces freakish amounts of testosterone a la Semenya and others, yet she plays it like people think she is doping.

I say the female sprinters at London should wait 5 seconds after the gun and have the true WOMEN race it out after she has pulled away.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-4733220/Dafne-Schippers-Acne-doesn-t-mean-dope.html

You have a to note all the breaking press for these types of articles that come out of the British press. Always looking sensationalize things.

I think honestly that their athletics teams have fallen from grace over the years and they ( the press ) look to smear the mud as to make up for the their downfall.

Daphne is the real deal.

Another appalling situation wrote:

I'm not interested in the sprint events, so didn't know who this was or look at this thread until now, but looked at the OP's article and the photos last night, and must say that I find the situation to be another appalling example of the travesties that are happening in women's events, and there needs to be a stop put to them.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/07/26/20/42B3611400000578-4733220-image-a-49_1501096892392.jpg

I agree too. I'm not interested in sprint events but if I remember correctly, the gal in that picture got the gold medal stolen from her in the Olympic final by an obvious druggie. This is a disturbing travesty that needs to be put to an end!

Uncle Beemer wrote:

covfefea wrote:

Right, so the failure in reasoning here is that acne means unnaturally higher levels of testosterone-no woman can have acne without steroids as it's impossible.

Who said anything about acne?

High levels of testosterone.

Look at her for Chrissakes.

Just cos she's more muscular than you she's on Steroids? You all seem to have forgotten that she has been competing long enough that she's been tested for steroids, and for testosterone levels. Clearly she passed.

She's big and strong, and her kids will be big and strong if she has any. And of course as long as she doesn't mate with you Auntie Beemer.

Big Dutch Women wrote:

Clearly no one on this thread has been to Holland. Dutch women are genetically "big". And not in an American fat way. Just big muscles and tall. Dutch women are the tallest women in the world and they are thick.

Wrong. I was there last week. They are not that special, but yes, taller than others by 1/2 an inch or so. See also

As for Felix. Also dirty of course, but less obviously so.

How is someone less obviously doping? Are you admitting that women's bodies are different and therefore might respond differently to illegal substances? Mmmm... makes one wonder if women's bodies can differ WITHOUT banned substances. Someone needs to make a list of "Letsrun Reader's list of Tell Tale Doping Signs".

Stupid, Insane, Foolish, Extre wrote:

Big Dutch Women wrote:

Clearly no one on this thread has been to Holland. Dutch women are genetically "big". And not in an American fat way. Just big muscles and tall. Dutch women are the tallest women in the world and they are thick.

Wrong. I was there last week. They are not that special, but yes, taller than others by 1/2 an inch or so. See also

http://www.averageheight.co/average-female-height-by-country

As for Felix. Also dirty of course, but less obviously so.

I didn't comment on the body type wrt to doping - look at the less suspicious progression. But yes, winning an Olympic medal in sprinting in this dirty era is in itself already quite suspicious.

I think she looks a little more masculine every year (muscle mass, broad shoulders), I'm willing to believe there was a time she was clean, but it's been a long time.

This is a very pretty young woman.

http://www.all-athletics.com/files/imagecache/photos_big_nowm/photos/Dafne_biografie_0.jpg

So, then...how is she not getting flagged on the steroid & growth hormone module of the ABP? 🤔 It's impossible to use those substances at a dose large enough to produce any significant performance-enhancing benefit without triggering a flag (recall that her name wasn't on the hacked WADA list of suspicious or likely doping cases).

Also, keep in mind they're storing the samples now for future retesting as the technology is evolving at detecting micro-doses of drugs. The last thing Dafne would what is the utter embarrassment of one of her samples testing positive 5 or 10 yrs from now and everything she's worked so hard for going down the toilet in an instance.

Thing this one through: With the new technological advancements of anti-doping it's not like the wild & free-for-all times of the pre-passport days...who would have thought.

Big Dutch Women wrote:

So you guys are telling me because a woman has muscles she must be a "he"? Really?

There's been no verification that DS is a woman.

The term woman has been butchered by morons and is no longer useful.

Thus I'm using the term XX real woman to differentiate between

people who simply choose to call themselves women and actual XX real women.

There's been no verification that DS is an XX real woman.

There's been no verification that DS has low T levels in the range of a typical XX real woman.

Because of the absence of evidence, and physical characteristics to the contrary,

I personally consider DS to not be qualified to participate in XX real women's athletic events.

You can't say a female athlete is doping because they are muscular or becomes more muscular. With that logic, I would have to say 2/3rds of female sprinters are doping. Having a somewhat boyish physique is almost A typical for a female sprinter, just like being tall is almost A typical for a basketball player. Most elite sprinters spend a considerable amount of time in the weight room, it stands to reason they are going to put on muscle. Felix for example, is an outlier for a female sprinter and her lack of muscle is what diminishes her explosiveness. She is basically a turtle coming out of the blocks. If you add in the fact that Schippers is Dutch and a former heptathlete, her physique is not that unusual.

From a coaching standpoint, I think Schippers is a gorgeous, very talented athlete and I don't think she needs drugs to run fast. My suspicion is based purely on performance and progression. With that said, you can't blame athletes for getting better and running fast times, that's what we want to see. However, in this day and age, if you run extremely fast and progress at an extreme rate, you would have to be a fool not to be suspicious. Most people assume FloJo was chemically enhanced, yet she never failed a drug test. FloJo is indicted for same exact reasons Schippers is...you can't have one without the other. If the gloves fits, you cannot acquit.

Dafne in 2011

https://www.girlswithmuscle.com/images/full/808421166.jpg

Dafne in 2015

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/EH88GB/prague-czech-republic-8th-mar-2015-netherlands-dafne-schippers-celebrates-EH88GB.jpg

TrackCoach wrote:

You can't say a female athlete is doping because they are muscular or becomes more muscular. With that logic, I would have to say 2/3rds of female sprinters are doping.

You really are not much of track coach to make a statement that "2/3rds of female sprinters are doping." You simply don't think things through by making such a ridiculous statement as that! If Dafne and the other "2/3rds of the female sprinters" are doping then why aren't they getting flagged on the steroidal & growth hormone module of the ABP? It's impossible to use PE substances at a dose large enough to produce any significant performance-enhancing benefit without triggering a flag (recall that her name and any female sprinter wasn't on the hacked WADA list of suspicious or likely doping cases).

Also keep in mind they're storing the samples now for future retesting as the technology is evolving at more efficient detection capabilities of micro-dose usage of drugs. The last thing Dafne and other top sprinters would what is the utter embarrassment of one of their samples testing positive 5 or 10 yrs from now and everything they've worked so hard for going down the toilet in an instance.

With the new technological advancements and ABP of anti-doping it's not like the wild, crazy & free-for-all times of the pre-passport days. Think this one through "coach" as you're casting aspersions on these athletes without sufficient evidence to support your claims. 👈