I hate to sound like the typical conspiracy-addled LRC poster, but I keep asking myself: Why, given English libel laws, would anyone take this story to the London papers? Is just that it's a bigger story in England than anywhere else? Or is something else at work?
TrackCoach wrote:
Sports quiz wrote:Get your facts right, Kelly ran 1.56 in 1995 and ran there or thereabouts 1.56/57/58 for the best part of ten years. Her physique was as muscular when she came on the scene as when she left. Her times were not earth shattering (unlike others) and she won in an era where the 800 and the 1500 were wide open. It's not her.
To be clear, I am not questioning Kelly's ability as a career 800m runner -or even a 1500m for that matter, I know she ran some fast times in the mid-90s. But, her career was definitely in decline around 2003. She wasn't running 1:56 800s or sub-4 1500s anymore; she was getting old. In 2003 I don't think she was ranked in the top-10 in either 800 or the 1500, in fact, in 2003 there were several British athletes ranked ahead of her. The fact that she beat Mutola and all of the Russians in the Athens 800m was surprising, but not off the charts. However, her Olympic 1500m victory was absolutely off the charts and unexpected. The mere fact that an athlete who had never won any Olympic medal, would even attempt the 800/1500 double was crazy. This reminded me of the typical scenario of an athlete in twilight of their career, using dope to get back to their glory days.
With all of that said, other than her 2004 Olympic performances, I don't know of anything that points the finger at her. And, I agree with you that she never had physique of a typical 1500m runner. However, what I have always found interesting is the very muted praise her own countrymen like McColgan, Pavey and Tulet give when Kelly's name comes up. The British public was all over Kelly, but I don't recall British middle distance athletes having much to say about her Olympic performances. Even to this day, among British athletes, she gets nowhere near the praise of someone like Coe or Overt, even though she did something they never did. The suspicions about Kelly is not just me, but from other athletes, the people who know and have trained with her...her own countrymen.
Your facts are wrong:
1) Holmes won a world silver medal in 2003
2) She was an Olympic medallist in 2000
suspicious values = low IQ wrote:
B-Sample wrote:
The fact that BOTH Bolt and Farah have no suspicious values tells me something loud and clear: the big stars have inviolable protection at every level-labs,testers,officials,agents,etc.etc..
Don't agree. Bolt isn't tested for most of the year, and Farah has smart enough doctors/advisers to not have suspicious values.
Gotta love the old LetsRun logic: Any reports or results involving certain athletes are proof that they are dirty. Epstein and the BBC couldn't find anything incriminating on Farah? Proof he's a doper. No abnormal values for Bolt and Farah? Proof they're dopers.
Kelly Holmes won bronze in the Sydney 800 final, and made looked like she would win at one point.
Why, or why? wrote:
I hate to sound like the typical conspiracy-addled LRC poster, but I keep asking myself: Why, given English libel laws, would anyone take this story to the London papers?
It was also on German TV, no?
Homunculus wrote:
suspicious values = low IQ wrote:B-Sample wrote:
The fact that BOTH Bolt and Farah have no suspicious values tells me something loud and clear: the big stars have inviolable protection at every level-labs,testers,officials,agents,etc.etc..
Don't agree. Bolt isn't tested for most of the year, and Farah has smart enough doctors/advisers to not have suspicious values.
Gotta love the old LetsRun logic: Any reports or results involving certain athletes are proof that they are dirty. Epstein and the BBC couldn't find anything incriminating on Farah? Proof he's a doper. No abnormal values for Bolt and Farah? Proof they're dopers.
Farah's progression proves he's a doper. We just discuss why he hasn't been caught.
Why, or why? wrote:
I hate to sound like the typical conspiracy-addled LRC poster, but I keep asking myself: Why, given English libel laws, would anyone take this story to the London papers?
VoR wrote:
It was also on German TV, no?
Ja, mit einer englischen Übersetzung!
It's Ohuruogu and she's got Coe on her side "By proposing Christine Ohuruogu as our sporting hero of the year" in an article he wrote knowing she had missed three tests and been suspended: "Three missed drugs tests later sidelined her rightly for a year.".
And, "She cites "hard work and God" as the factors behind her Olympic win and in beating the incredibly talented Sanya Richards, of the United States", how often do we hear "hard work and God" stuff from these people.
radcliffe is a doper. farah is a doper. Those are facts.
Just because she is nice, white, and a good face for the sport, people don't want to believe Radcliffe was dirty. She ran 3 mins Faster than Jeptoo or Shubokuva, and although weldon's roll in that was special for him (and hence for the boards) it doesn't explain away the time. People will b1tch and moan about how unfair it is to treat an athlete as guilty until proven innocent, but this isn't the criminal justice system and we aren't locking people up. Radcliffe beat a bunch of doped women in a doped era, and people need to stop being so blinded by their affections and acknowledge that there is at LEAST a massive asterisk next to her performances, pending review of her blood values, which will be available. At least some of our heroes (and heroines) doped - so we better suck it up and move on.
Coe's a hypocrite. wrote:
how often do we hear "hard work and God" stuff from these people.
Quite often from Americans. It's actually pretty unusual coming from a Brit.
She's Filthy wrote:
radcliffe is a doper. farah is a doper. Those are facts.
NOPe! Those are just opinions.
That is a fact.
In defence of Jo Pavey, and I don't usually come on this board to defend somebody, she was nowhere near her best last year. She was fortunate to be in two of the weakest championship fields ever seen. She's clean.
Since the 'star' British athlete under suspicion has now effectively been narrowed down to either Holmes, Ohuruogu, Pavey or Radcliffe (by triangulating the various pieces of accompanying detail from different media outlets), surely it's now incumbent on The Times or any other journalists who have the data set to disclose which of those it is, to spare the other three from unwarranted defamatory speculation?
ella guru wrote:
Since the 'star' British athlete under suspicion has now effectively been narrowed down to either Holmes, Ohuruogu, Pavey or Radcliffe (by triangulating the various pieces of accompanying detail from different media outlets), surely it's now incumbent on The Times or any other journalists who have the data set to disclose which of those it is, to spare the other three from unwarranted defamatory speculation?
I'm disappointed that no journalists have the balls to say who's on the list.
The innocent athletes should also be making efforts to clear their names.
It is not Jo Pavey, who has been a good consistent athlete over the years, but never won anything between 2001 and 2012. The "star" clearly did.
Also, Jo lives in distant Devon and there is no way she would have met Sunday Times journalists in a London Hotel!
Mo’s progression at 5000m
2000 – 14.05.72
2001 – 13.56.31
2002 – 14.00.50
2003 – 13.38.41
2004 – 14.25.00
2005 – 13.30.53
2006 – 13.09.40
2007 – 13.07.00
2008 – 13.08.11
2009 – 13.09.14
2010 – 12.57.94
2011 – 12.53.11
2012 – 12.56.98
2013 – 13.05.88
2014 – 13.23.42
2015 – 13.11.77
Mo’s progression at 10000m
2008 – 27.44.54
2010 – 27.28.86
2011 – 26.46.57
2012 – 27.30.42
2013 – 27.21.17
2014 – 28.08.11
2015 – 26.50.97
Interesting. You add 1-min to those times and it replicates my progression exactly. Pretty cool.
Sir Bastion Newbold wrote:
Mo’s progression at 10000m
Very interesting but it's been explicitly stated that Mo's dope tests are not suspicious (doesn't mean he's clean)
Holy F****ing Sh**. Employee 1.1 just broke 15:00 for 5000 for the 1st time at age 36.
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