I have given examples as well as data from different sources who have had experience in dealing with and investigating doping. You don't have that experience. Also, although actual dopers aren't quoted - although I could refer to some like Jose Canseco and track athletes who have described the undoubted benefits they experienced, the sheer prevalence of doping over the last decades with the inability of antidoping to stop or even curb it is the most telling feature. No practice that promises results could continue and be as pervasive as it is amongst so many athletes if it didn't so deliver. Your position rests on maintaining generations of coaches, trainers, physicians and athletes are dupes; gullible fools. Yet they have the experience of doping and you don't. Flat-earthing comes in various forms; yours is but one of them.
no way are they clean.laura is looking more and more like a man,and teenage girls cant run sub 1.56.The only teens i can think of that ran that fast were caster semenya,and pamela jelimo.The very best russian women struggled to run as fast as keely and athing.Even mary moraa(whom everybody says is full throttle doping)is yet to run sub 1.56.I doubt a teenage girl could even break 2 minutes,clean.
You have given next to nothing that is not your imagination, or someone else's.
My position is that your beliefs are not rooted in knowledge, but strongly founded in ignorance. This is easily falsifiable, by sharing knowledge, but you simply lack the knowledge to do so. Pretending I have no relevant experience will not create the knowledge you lack.
It is notably curious that despite the alleged "sheer prevalence of doping over the last decades with the inability of antidoping to stop or even curb it" your best example of a track athlete's doping experience appears to be Jose Canseco and some unnamed "track athletes". I did not find any of Jose Conseco's results at the World Athletics website. What is his marathon PB?
While you presume to know the collective experiences of coaches and athletes which they have never shared, you fail to bring any knowledge that their experiences would support your expressed but baseless beliefs.
You assert another ignorant belief that a practice cannot be pervasive if it doesn't deliver, but in reality, practices rooted in mythology can be pervasive for millennia on the basis of belief alone.
Since you clearly disregard anyone who has any kind of experience with doping - which includes the thousands of athletes who have doped - what is your experience of doping that enables you to dismiss theirs? You are like one of those quaint experts on the arts of marriage who has never been married. I tend to listen to those who speak from experience. You prefer to correct them from your position of no such experience. We generally call such a person a fool.
You keep dancing around your own failures. You say athletes and coaches have the experience, but can only give us quotes and experiences, not from any coaches or athletes, but from lawyers and management/financial consultants. I have listened to one famous coach here who says that the best results can be achieved without doping by extended altitude training. Many anonymous nobodies with no experience disagree with him -- I guess you would call all of them fools.
You are also gravely mistaken. I do not disregard or dismiss experts with experience, but regard their opinions presented without any supporting data as baseless beliefs. This is especially the case when they say the best experts say that their knowledge and data is limited to 1-2%.
If one day more data is made public, I will listen to the data. But whatever you want to call me will not produce this supporting data.
I think the argument that everyone who is good is doping is flawed and that everyone at a world class level must be cheating is over the top. I made a massive jump from college to the professional scene that took me from middle of the pack at the top level college track to one of the top guys in the US, at the time. While I didn’t quite make any world teams I live/lived with, and spend/spent a lot of time with guys who are always in the discussion for medals on the world stage. A couple Americans, but mostly guys from around the world. While I could never 100% guarantee any of them aren’t doping, because I’d have to spend 24/7 with them, I can say with strong resolve that I think it’s highly unlikely they are doping. There certainly are guys who are doping on the world stage, but I think this is perpetuated by the belief everyone is doping and so guys who wouldn’t otherwise be in the discussion are, because they believe their competition must be. This tends to be a trait from clear narcissists, who think that they must be equals or better than everyone and that the only way anyone is better is because they’re dirty. This is all to say that not everyone who is good is dirty, but it certainly puts you at a greater chance of being dirty.