Anyone still improving in their 50s

NotPC wrote:

tthxhx wrote:

I think aging and diminished physical performance is a myth. I think most people can go up and up and up until the end.

!

That's why there are so many 50 and 60 year old Olympians.

They've beaten up their bodies so much with high intensity training that catches up with most elites. Running the workouts that they do takes a big toll as they age.

No, I'm not saying they'd be running as fast, but the average Joe hasn't shredded their body from super high intensity miles over years and years.

The guy who said 7-10 years to plateau is probably correct. I hit my best times my jr year of college through grad school (moving from 5/10 to half and then full marathon). I ran some pr's after that, but they were at distances like 12k, road prs - not overall prs, 4k xc, etc. and were really just in line with my extant prs. When I did get an absolute pr, it would be just a few seconds under my previous pr. I also won some races in which I was within seconds of my pr's, which I thought may have been better efforts than the prs because of the considerable time I spent running alone, like a half marathon in which I led from the gun and a 10 miler in which I took the lead at 1k.

not my real handle wrote:

The guy who said 7-10 years to plateau is probably correct. I hit my best times my jr year of college through grad school (moving from 5/10 to half and then full marathon). I ran some pr's after that, but they were at distances like 12k, road prs - not overall prs, 4k xc, etc. and were really just in line with my extant prs. When I did get an absolute pr, it would be just a few seconds under my previous pr. I also won some races in which I was within seconds of my pr's, which I thought may have been better efforts than the prs because of the considerable time I spent running alone, like a half marathon in which I led from the gun and a 10 miler in which I took the lead at 1k.

I don't doubt that someone in their 50s has chipped a few secs off a marathon or half, maybe even a couple mins. Kids grew up and now they have time to train again combined with not exceeding their college level training, ie diving into a career or family in their early 20s. You won't find more than an example or two of someone who maintained a level of training for 30 years and still is running even small prs.

Its aging, recovery, and getting the body to exceed previous hard efforts in training. You just can't keep doing the last of these indefinitely.

I've read numerous times that the 7-10 year improvement 'arc' is real and I believe it. For many of us, beyond simple burnout and temptation to wander into other hobbies/endeavors, there are the issues of recovery and healing.

In my late 40s my ability to recover from hard workouts declined. From my early fifties it seemed that every little tweak would slow me down or halt training for more than a week at a time, coupled with a serious reduction in average pacing of runs. I moved more into other areas including cycling, rowing and skierg, not because I really wanted to but because I needed to be able to exercise without constant frustration. The pounding of running really becomes noticeable and pronounced with age.

This February I decided to become aging ultra guy, which would allow me to train very, very slowly and try something new. I slowly worked up to 60mpw at very, very slow paces and was doing great, until a mid-fifties thing got me again. Long run, 14 easy miles on the treadmill, easy pace, felt great, and then next day felt 'something' in my left hip. Of course, that 'something' has stuck with me and I'm temporarily back to skierg and rowing with some gentle walking until my hip decides to cooperate again, assuming it does.

THAT's the problem many of us face as we age. It's not a matter of want, or dedication, it's the constant niggling tweaks that may or may not become injuries, that keep us off a plan, for weeks and months at a time, no matter how smart we train, no matter how careful we are. That's the thing for me. Every time I come back to running now, after decades of high mileage and no injuries that ever sidelined me, I can't build effectively without setbacks.

KnotPC wrote:

NotPC wrote:

That's why there are so many 50 and 60 year old Olympians.

They've beaten up their bodies so much with high intensity training that catches up with most elites. Running the workouts that they do takes a big toll as they age.

No, I'm not saying they'd be running as fast, but the average Joe hasn't shredded their body from super high intensity miles over years and years.

So Me could have chilled out in his 20's and 30's THEN decided to be a great marathoner at say, 45?? Hey, he'd be well rested!

Cmon dude, aging is REAL very very very REAL. You are not as fast, not as quick to recover, easy to injure, so to heal. To deny that is stupidity.

I'm not saying people cannot compete as Masters runners, and have real meaningful experiences and fantastic performances given their age.. but time and age get us all, no matter how great your diet might be, or how active you remain.

I am only 38 and I agree with you.

Anybody improving their times in their 50's either wasn't training hard (or at all) when they were younger or never ran that distance when they were younger. As many have pointed out, there is a reason that you don't see any 50 year old runners in the Olympics. Their best times are already behind them.

Most of the older runners I know either realized they love running for the experience of running and gave up on PR's, picked events they didn't run when they were young so they could still have PR's or quit running altogether and picked something else active to do.

For some people chasing the better numbers is the only fun thing about running. That means no fun when you are in your 50's if you have been a life long runner.

Aging gets everyone but a failure to adjust training to age makes it worse. When you're young the best way to be a great runner is to run high mileage. When you get older strength training, HIIT, Hill sprints, drills, things a younger runner doesn't need to focus on unless they're a sprinter become more important. Speed flexibility and power become limiting factors when before it was probably just endurance.

"Please explain why every world record in any sport is held by someone in their 20s or 30s."

This discussion is about getting better; not making world records.

Still, I think there is a mindset in the world that holds older athletes back. It's like until the 4 minute miles record was broken no one thought it was possible. Shortly after it was shown to be possible lots of people did it.

tthxhx wrote:

"Please explain why every world record in any sport is held by someone in their 20s or 30s."

This discussion is about getting better; not making world records.

Still, I think there is a mindset in the world that holds older athletes back. It's like until the 4 minute miles record was broken no one thought it was possible. Shortly after it was shown to be possible lots of people did it.

If someone gets a late start, it might be possible to set PRs in their 50s, but all things being equal, it's not possible and mindset has nothing to do with it.

I started running at 22. I'm now in my mid-50's. Every summer I go to the same place that has a route of 5 miles and I test myself. Each year I have gotten faster and faster. Last summer was incredible! I really pushed it. And that was after a 5 miles bicycle ride!

I hear what what you're saying but I really think aging is just simply under or over use or neglect, like in the case of health. In fact my dentist told me a person's teeth should be the same health at 20 than at 80! You do this by taking the right care of your teeth. Not many people do. The same with everything else.

All things being equal yep.

But you are starting to see guys doing things like HRT which has really pushed the ability of old people to improve at an older age.

But that isn't equal, that's on drugs.

That is great that your times keep improving.

Did you train as hard as you do now in your 20's and 30's? A lot of the people I know who's times are better in their 50's is because now that they aren't working insane hours getting established in their careers and the kids are older or out of the house they have a lot more time to train.

I will also add that you should think like a campion, not like everyone else. What this means is do things that work, regardless if they are not fashionable or not. For example, some champions intentionally train in heat and humidity or high altitudes. Other champions take layoffs to recover that other athletes would never, etc.

Mindset is also very important. Consider the 4 minute mile example I gave above. It was mostly mental.

The post below is one of those where the knowledgeable reader says to themselves "bullsh!t" at least twice as they read it. First, if you get faster every year, you were either ill, or broken, or weren't trying very hard when you were in your twenties on that loop of yours. No fit 25 year old is going to ever lose to their 55 year old self on a 5 mile loop unless there are significant 'other' factors at play. I call BullSh!t. Second, there is no such thing as a 55 year old mouth, gums and teeth that are as healthy as they were at age 25. Again, BullSh!t. Last, perhaps you're a HRT age-cheat, the ripped balding dude at the gym preening around like a rooster. In any event, your post smells of BullSh!t. Nobody cheats age. Nobody.

tthxhx wrote:

I started running at 22. I'm now in my mid-50's. Every summer I go to the same place that has a route of 5 miles and I test myself. Each year I have gotten faster and faster. Last summer was incredible! I really pushed it. And that was after a 5 miles bicycle ride!

I hear what what you're saying but I really think aging is just simply under or over use or neglect, like in the case of health. In fact my dentist told me a person's teeth should be the same health at 20 than at 80! You do this by taking the right care of your teeth. Not many people do. The same with everything else.

3 simple words.......

RETURN-ON-INVESTMENT

You've got to ask yourself WHY? Running is not an easy sport and if not properly managed can be a frustrating endeavor. If in your 40's, 50's, or later you're trying to improve and or run faster it becomes a "Whisper" contest. The only way one is going to improve is to increase the training workload and time commitment. This is where the "R.O.I" factor comes into play. Injuries and setbacks become a negative factor. Now you begin spending more time treating aches and pains then actual running. It then becomes an "Obsession" and overly time-consuming chore just to be able to run a 5:00 min mile or 20:00 min 5K of which will only get harder and harder over time. How about just going out for a run for the sake of going out for a run? Have a few courses with varying distances and terrain (3-6 miles) and go run how you feel. If you feel good run faster, if not run slower. If you don't place expectations on yourself and just run how you feel you'll find that running is enjoyable and still very challenging. No one cares how fast you run at age 50, and neither should you.

Break a sweat, have a beer, and be done with it.

"Go Run One"

Define improvement.

Many ultra runners are older runners who ran fast at shorter distances in their prime years.

5K specialists are in their prime in their late 20s to early 30s.

Marathoners are in their prime in their late 30s to early 40s.

If you started late, you'll see improvements for about 10 years. At 44, I started competitively at 34 and hit half marathon and 15K PRs in January and March of this year, respectively, before coronavirus shut it all down. I was training to PR in the marathon at Boston. Could still happen for me next time it runs.

Another way to "PR" is to run races of weird or uncommon distances! I ran a fun race a year ago called the Apollo 11K and had a blast running a distance I'd likely never see again in racing!

That said, I'm considering age graded times for PRs, now (hit an age graded 5K PR in February) as the method for age grading is well established and understood as a method for leveling the field.

The most important things to improve, as was also stated, is having fun and also staying injury free! Keep those easy days easy and listen to your body.

LetsDoc wrote:

"I think aging and diminished physical performance is a myth. I think most people can go up and up and up until the end."

Please explain why every world record in any sport is held by someone in their 20s or 30s.

LRC needs to test users for sarcasm awareness before granting 'write' privileges.

There is sarcasm on the LRC forum?

I am surprised.

"the knowledgeable reader says to themselves "bullsh!t" at least twice as they read it."

Everything I wrote is 100% true. I will agree though that I do not know what my times were in my 20' to mid-40's. It could be that the last several years I have been getting faster but not faster than before. It certainly feels like it.

Still, for me it is amazing I can do this. Last summer I shaved 2 minutes off my 5 mile route. That felt great! But I don't push it the rest of the year. I just run for fitness at a fairly brisk pace.

I stand by my assertion that aging is not automatically a bar against continuing improvement in physical activity. I spent most of my life in the US but have also lived in Northern Europe. There they have a different reality - not only more 80+ year old people around but these same people are bicycling, hiking and even running like they were middle age. That's a great example of a lifetime of activity, healthy, smaller portion diet and a culture that has created a "happy culture" which gives people an incentive to "stick around".