50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Big change in plans. Mile attempt no longer a consideration as I have a hunch some of the tumors in my abdomen are growing again, lots of crowding, and an inflammation marker was high. I've been having lots of symptoms the last month similar to when I was diagnosed with cancer back in 2010. Can't get in to see my oncologist until the 21st so I have to once again change my eating habits to accomodate food tying to move through a crowded abdomen. I am trying to keep my weight up with high calorie fats - olive oil, avocados, nuts and seeds, which also don't seem to take up as much space in my GI tract. More frequent small meals and something I didn't realize to do last time - exercise to slow down the muscle wasting (cachexia), although I may switch to an exercise bike or pool to burn less calories while still getting a cardiovascular workout.

The cardiovascular aspect to training while a tumor is growing is something I believe will eventually be found to have importance for cancer patients. If tumors grow without the influence of exercise, particularly when they may be aggressive and causing symptoms, tumors grow abnormal vasculature, which is a problem for good drug perfusion throughout a tumor. There is a researcher at Harvard, Rakeesh Jain, who studies tumor vasculature normalization but they use drugs to modify the vessels, which have side effects, another one is Peter Carmeliet at the University of Leuven, Belgium. However, Lee Jones at Duke did a study last year showing that exercise modified the vasculature of prostate tumors in mice towards normal, with a greatly improved blood flow. He is now doing a similar study in women with breast cancer.

Why may this be important? First, better drug perfusion throughout a tumor should make drugs more efficient. Second, it is quite common for patients to stop exercising when they are symptomatic, or at diagnosis (diagnosis shock), they don't feel well and are tired. I've been experiencing this the last month and my motivation is way down, and I understand all this stuff, so I understand why most patients do not exercise right around diagnosis. If they are symptomatic and the tumor is growing at a higher rate, then the tumor blood vessels are growing without any influence of exercise, which Dr. Jones' study is the first to show that exercise might wrest control of vessel growth away form the tumors, normalizing it.

Before some of you comment 'won't normalized blood vessels cause the tumor to grow more?' No, so far a few studies have show that normalized tumor vasculature does not increase tumor growth, in fact there is some evidence that metastasis and proliferation decrease.

So, if I find out on the 21st that I need more chemotherapy, I want my tumor(s) to be as well vascularized as possible for hopefully a better response to the drugs. Unfortunately, there are no studies yet to confirm all this. That is why we need funding at WorkOut Cancer to support studies of this type. Your donations matter, and it is exercise, something we're already in to.

Thanks!

Week of 1/7

Mon AM exercises & light stretching

PM 5 mile run on treadmill @ 1% grade, down to 6:24 last mile, felt awkward warming up. Weights.

Tue AM 5 miles on treadmill 0% grade, down to sub 6:40 pace, felt awkward warming up.

PM AT, stretching.

Wed PM massage, no run - stomach an issue.

Thur AT, 4 miles on treadmill 0% grade, down to sub 6:40 pace.

Fri AT, 4 miles on treadmill 0% grade, down to sub 7:00 pace. Weights.

Sat AM 4 miles on treadmill 0% grade, down to sub 6:40 pace.

PM stretching

Sun rest

Holy Cow on the heat Mopak, I read where it was up to 125 degrees in the center of the continent last week with widespread wildfires. Hope you are not near the fires.

WOC, I can’t wrap my head around your experience but I can share that I have deep respect for your courage, ability, and knowledge. I’ll certainly consider a donation to WorkOut Cancer.

And I whine like a baby because of a little heel discomfort. Perspective.

Anyway, here’s my week, first full week of doing much of anything, hence the reason for my lack of comments in the past few weeks.

Mon = 20 min elliptical + 25/25 X2 (25 pushups/crunches)

Tue = 2 miles@9:27 pace

Wed = 20 min elliptical + 25/25 X2

Thr = 2 miles@9:03 pace

Fi = 20 min elliptical + 25/25 X2

Sat = 2 miles@8:23 pace

Sun = 20 min elliptical + 25/25 X2

Run miles 6

Elliptical minutes 80

This is the first week I could run without significant discomfort in my heel. I’m running every other day 2 miles. I don’t really like running every other day but my heel hurts if I try to run every day. The heel wins the argument. Because every other day running is just not enough I’ve added an elliptical. The elliptical is a total experiment and I don’t like it either. But I have to do something. I hate swimming and I hate bikes.

I got one of those compact elliptical’s with no handles because I’m cheap and “they” say you should not use the handles anyway as a runner. If, in about a hundred years, I grow to like the elliptical I’ll buy a better one.

I think I’m turning into one of those stereotypical curmudgeons that is grumpy all the time.

Ok, it’s not all bad, my heel is slowly getting better and my paces on the few measly miles I run are getting faster with a lower heart rate. So I’m progressing.

Next week I hope to go to 2.25 miles and increase the resistance on the elliptical. I have to admit the elliptical is an odd beast that works my quads like crazy….and more importantly, does not hurt my heel. Also, with no handles, I’m forced to balance and use core muscles.

mo'pak

I remember racing a 2 mile in Adelaide one year, I think it was 115 F that day, not sure what it was at race time but still well over 100. Stay cool!

DrT, thanks for the advice, and Alan B. for the cautionary note. I’ll continue to investigate sitting furniture.

Mo’pak, we’ve been hearing how you’ve been setting all kinds of record temperatures down under. Stay cool!

Ken! I’m very sorry about the mile-attempt setback, but obviously more concerned about your own well-being. Wishing you all the best. Both my wife and daughter are back in school, so I’m pretty cash-strapped presently (not the a CC professor can do much anyways). I’ll see if I can get the word out; it might help if there was some literature you could link me to.

Rtype, glad your back to doing something!

*************************

Week 84

*************************

Greetings, 50+er’s. Well, I’ve already clued you all into the direction I’m headed for the next little while. After a year of basically flat running and the fact that any sustained efforts over 6 miles were problematic, I just felt that it was time to do something different. Since I’ve always been tepid about doing core work, I figured it is time to take it more seriously. I’m not talking about joining a gym; I want to do as much as possible using body weight and simple home equipment (like elastics and maybe some light free weights). So the mileage was down, only about 28 mostly easy miles on six runs. The week looked like this:

Sun: 8.8 easy + balance

Mon: 4.0 easy + post-run + upper + dynamic

Tues: 4.2 easy + post-run + static + balance

Wed: 4.2 easy-moderate + post-run + upper + balance

Thur: no miles, squats + static

Fri: 4.0 easy + post-run + upper + tube + balance

Sat: 3.0 @ 6:32 pace + squats + balance + dynamic

You can look on week 83 (page 98) for what each of those terms represent, except on “upper”, I did leg lifts instead (I fatigue at about 50); next week, I’ll go back to sit-ups.

squats = 6 sets of 10 single-leg squats (10 each leg), full recovery between sets. Single-leg, because I want to be sure that I do the same work for each leg, two-legged squats can still lead to asymmetries.

tube = attaching elastic tubing around 1 leg, applying tension, and swing the leg while stabilizing on the other leg, as shown in the latter part of the Dave Scott video alluded to in week 83: two circuits of these, almost to fatigue. I’ll probably start doing the full set of Dave Scott’s elastic band work.

I should also have noted that I am still doing the hip lifts that Alan B. suggested…3xper week 2x30 on each side. My plan is to get myself to back to doing more advanced balance/stability work, lunges, and ultimately running drills after few more weeks. I hope that I’ll also be slowly working my mileage back up, but I want to do all this cautiously. None of this is fun to me, but the point is to get to where I feel I can run longer distances without discomfort (which IS fun) and hopefully stave off injuries down the road (which is rewarding). So, on with the new approach for the New Year; mostly, though, I’m just thankful that I even have the opportunity to try something new.

All the best!

WOC I wish I had your courage. What you are doing will benefit the cause. Yes I did put some money where my post is;) Thanks.

http://workoutcancer.org/Donate.html

My week was good. Setting GOALS really helps me stay on track. The goal of not getting injured has seeped into my attitude. Kind of like thinking about world domination ie running a time or beating your nemesis. So now I think about not getting injured before every run in this same motivational way.

monday zippo

tuesay zippo

wednesday zippo

thursday all most ran but changed my mind

friday zippo

saturday started to run but stopped

sunday day off

just kidding

Monday ez 30 minutes tired 9 minutes per mile 55% max HR

Tuesday ez 20 minutes tired at 75% HR I was moving along at 65% HR pace when fully recovered

Wednesday ez 20 minutes wokeup with sore calfs first time this time around I was a bit worried after a fe minutes felt fine so I ran ez 20

The run was good I felt like going fast but did not. Did not bother with HR because I could tell all was well.

Thursday quality 3 loops of glendoveer plus 7 minutes jogging barefoot

7:13 per mile 15:30 at 70 MHR a warm up

6:17 per mile 13:30 at 90 MHR started out wanting to break 14 but it was going good so went faster but even

6:45 per mile 14:30 at 80 MHR goal was to slow down to 14:30 went pretty even as well

not really tired could have done another say 15:30 or what ever but decided to save some for sunday

2.15 miles

15:35 = 7:15

15:03 = 7:00

14:31 = 6:45

13:59 = 6:30

13:25 = 6:15

12:54 = 6:00

side note barefoot walking on "soft" frosty ground after running feels really good it seems to be kind of like icing for inflamation anyhow my pfs are good

Another good steady week for me with 56 miles. I didn't quite feel ready for a workout on Tuesday, but on Friday I was feeling pretty good and ran my 8 mile loop progressively starting at about 8:30/mi and running the last 2 miles at 6:35 pace. Saturday morning I did my usual 6 miler with my son and he made me run the last 2 miles in the mid-6 range again, which still felt very manageable. This morning I did a 6 mile trail run at a very easy 9:30/mi pace.

I usually don't mention what I do about alternative training and stretching, but since it is a current topic, Monday through Friday I do 20 minutes on a rowing machine before starting my runs. This is both for range of motion and core strength. Post-runs I try to be very consistent about doing 5 minutes of mostly hamstring stretching.

The weekly discussions on this thread are a regular reminder to me of how truly grateful I am to still have the health to get out and enjoy the putting in the miles at any pace.

hi all.

WOC just so fxxxxxx gutted for you nothing more can i say.

well heres my week

week 2 of 6 goal race nick beer 10k

mon 8:04 miles steady

tues 12:03 miles cruise intervals = @ 80-92%

6:42/5:57/6:54/5:59/6:56/6:00/7:01/5:57/6:53.

80% /87%/ 82%/ 89%/82% /89% /82% /89% /82% /

weds 9 miles steady

thurs 8:40 miles hills 7x3mins @ 85-95% max out 157

fri 10:04 miles steady 71 min

sat 10:04 miles Tempo 5 miles @89% = 32:10/4x70sec hill

sun 13 mile hilly steady @ 77% 1hr 34 min

70:55 mile weeks total (TTD = 134:34 miles )

you all take care keep on running (thanks again charlie)

Week 84: 8 hours 27 minutes in 7 runs, 2 of them workouts:

Tue 1 hr 24 min with 7x hill repeats. A fairly big jump from the 4x hill repeats I did for my last hill workout on 18th December -- alf tupper's training has me convinced I have been fooling around too much.

Sat 2 hr 22 min (15 or 16 miles). With no tempo run on Friday I felt pretty strong so added a couple detours to take in some long hills.

Slipped on the ice Thursday morning -- 8 stitches over the right eye and a splint on the left hand. I got lucky that the right hand has only a minor sprain. The ER told me to rest (no running) until at least after I see the ortho (I made the appointment for Monday afternoon), so I skipped the pm treadmill. On Friday morning my resting HR was way high at 56, and it was an easy decision to take the day off. But by Friday evening I was already thinking "no way MikeF would let a broken wrist keep him from running!" Thus inspired, I did my long run Saturday, and will continue to run -- against medical advice. The really sad part is no yoga for six to eight weeks.

LucKY2b,

Here are some links, the less technical at the beginning. I'm going to send you the full-text versions of some of them because you have to read more, and see more, than just the abstracts. On the more technical articles at least read the introductions, the authors give good overviews of what they are looking at and why, and they explain tumor hypoxia and vascularization in lay terms, which will help you to understand that I'm not crazy in what I'm talking about.

Regarding donations, I understand. If you are so inclined, perhaps you can raise money for WorkOut Cancer through a racing goal. I have submitted to the web designers pages for fundraising, and expect them to be up soon.

enjoy:

Cancer Survival: Time to Get Moving? Data Accumulate Suggesting a Link Between Physical Activity and Cancer Survival

Journal of Clinical Oncology, Volume 24, Number 22, August 2006 pgs 3517-3518

http://jco.ascopubs.org/content/24/22/3517.full.pdf+html

Exercise modulation of the host-tumor interaction in an orthotopic model of murine prostate cancer.

Journal of Applied Physiology Jul;113(2):263-72

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22604887

(be sure to view the slides on pg. 269)

Exercise-oncology research: Past, present, and future. Acta Oncol 2012 Dec 17

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23244677

Exercise intolerance in cancer and the role of exercise therapy to reverse dysfunction.

Lancet Oncol. 2009 Jun;10(6):598-605.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19482248

(a great overview of exercise physiology and cancer, take note of Figure 2, the partial pressure of exercising muscles, which is similar to that within tumors - hypoxia, and I think an overlooked link between the value of exercise on tumor physiology)

Review of exercise studies in breast cancer survivors: attention to principles of exercise training

Br J Sports Med 2012;46:909-916

http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/46/13/909.abstract

(this is sobering since breast cancer gets most of the funding for research and they still can't get it correct)

NORMALIZATION OF THE VASCULATURE FOR TREATMENT OF CANCER AND OTHER

DISEASES Physiol Rev 91: 1071–1121, 2011

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3258432/pdf/nihms348021.pdf

Heterozygous Deficiency of PHD2 Restores Tumor Oxygenation and Inhibits Metastasis via Endothelial Normalization Cell 136, 839–851, March 6, 2009

http://ac.els-cdn.com/S0092867409000683/1-s2.0-S0092867409000683-main.pdf?_tid=2f596e68-5dcd-11e2-b8a2-00000aab0f6c&acdnat=1358114841_0fd51e50ab6786502cf2ebd6015d40d8

Ordinary base building week 32 miles and climbing; easy mileage with fartlek on Tuesday and a local 5K on Saturday in 20:35 (6.22/6.50/6.37/.44 …guess where the elevation change was located!). Race conditions were 70 degrees and 89% humidity at 7:00 am which is pretty odd for my part of the world in the middle of January. There was weight training session on Monday and Friday and stretch band work every day.

WOC: one of my training partners beat cancer a few years back and made the cover of RW. Since you have already been on a few magazine covers, I’m pulling for you to beat this thing and get on another.

lucKY2b: The gym I use is a USOC Olympic and Paralympic Training Center. I know a lot of athletes in wheelchairs and a common trait they share is the inability to straighten their legs, some even have spasms when trying. Prolonged sitting leads to tight hamstrings and atrophy. Perhaps even with us able-bodies any time spent sitting with the feet on the floor and the legs bent at a right angle at the knee is a detriment to the proper function of the hamstrings. I have read where Lorraine Moller raised her computer and keyboard to be able to stand at a desk to work. If I ever get a laptop to replace this PC I’m also ditching the desk for a shelf on the bookcase. I do occasionally rotate the office chair for a dining table chair as it seems to not affect the hamstring attachment as much. I have also used a fitness ball but found it awkward for the same reasons others have listed and didn’t stick with it very long.

Alan Bennet: even as a youngster my RHR was never as low as my peers. 56 is about my upper average before crawling out of bed each morning.

Edgewood

Alan bennet re 8 stitches.

Sorry about your spill,but dont let it put you of your

stride keep on running!!!!

WOC, I do hope your hunch about the tummy tumours is wrong. Your attitude and determination is an inspiration. It's quite apparent why you were a champion athlete.

Re.the weather here in Oz. No big issues so far this summer in my part of the state. Hasn't even really produced a full blown "Catastrophic" fire day. Hottest has only been a "mild" 112 deg. but this didn't have the dangerous gale force Northerlies.

2009, Feb.7th aka Black Saturday we had temps here of 120ish deg. with 100+ km per hour North winds.

Plenty of serious fires elsewhere though. Most serious have been in Tasmania and in New South Wales.

We still have another 5-6 weeks of high risk summer weather.

Tough on the fall AB. I had a spectacular fall in a race some years back, I smacked the head into the ground pretty hard. I finished the race a 3.2 km trail event in last place (20+ mins) covered from head to toe in blood. Had to have my knee stitched up and had big chunks out of hands and elbows.

l2b, good luck with your determined plan to overcome your injury issues. As I've previously mentioned I do a short warmup/cooldown of pushups, squats, lunges, core planks and often a few other brief drills. I have added a few bits and pieces after reading your post last week and will continue to experiment with a range of exercises.

I have been pretty lucky with injury issues the last few years but I do want to remain "lucky" so will keep working on it.

Rtype, one method I've used successfully to get back from injury is pole hiking. Simple, fun, low impact and not far removed from running. Gradually adding weight via a back pack I would improve my load bearing tolerance. Just a thought.

mo'pak wrote:

Rtype, one method I've used successfully to get back from injury is pole hiking. Simple, fun, low impact and not far removed from running. Gradually adding weight via a back pack I would improve my load bearing tolerance. Just a thought.

I’ll consider that mo’pak. Wish we could post pics here; it’d be cool to see a pic of your bloody-mess race. Around here in Va, for ultra’s, we have something called “best blood”, a trophy given to the person with the goriest bloody gash from the race. Truly, something to be proud of!

Thanks alf. Not broken! Hills tomorrow.

alf tupper wrote:

... keep on running!!!!

But by Friday evening I was already thinking "no way MikeF would let a broken wrist keep him from running!" Thus inspired, I did my long run Saturday, and will continue to run -- against medical advice

Glad to have inspired...and correct, I'd have not given it a second thought to miss because of a broken wrist...smart? maybe not...OCD? naaaah, more "up for the challenge" and mostly underscores for my own self talk things like commitment, discipline, focus, drive, desire...self talk that always comes in handy in the third quarter of every race...be well.

...and run like you mean it.

MF

WOC, My hat is off to you and your courage. Good luck for your own journey and for the research support for WorkOut Cancer. I in fact just remembered we met a couple of times "back in the day"... the last time I believe was at Shaun Creighton's wedding in Alb, .... all seems a long long time ago now......

Cheers mate.

WOC wrote:

Big change in plans. Mile attempt no longer a consideration

So, if I find out on the 21st that I need more chemotherapy,

That is why we need funding at WorkOut Cancer to support studies of this type. Your donations matter, and it is exercise, something we're already in to.

Thanks!

Ken, I saw your post and having been away from this thread for a few months, just researched your story. I am fortunate that my prostate cancer was caught and treated early and fully removed at age 49. You are inspirational and have my best wishes. ... and WOC just got a donation from me.

DrT, your biomechanics and glutes and achilles post hit my stubborn, procrastinating head with an effective thump. I have had multiple assessments pointing to the same, at least partial, causes of my chronic achilles issues and have never just stuck to a long term dedicated strengthening program. Your post was a motivation to "get with it".

L2B, great video link from kinetic revolution. More re-motivation and refiring of dormant synapses of exercises I've been taught. I share your inherent disinterest in these exercises relative to going for a run outdoors; I now need to draft your dedication to the strength work.

thanks, guys!