Modifying the Norwegian approach to lower mileage

If you run slightly slower than marathon pace, the stress is manageable. I find a workout which has blocks of 10K/15K/HM pace in it (like 6 x 1 mile @ HM pace w/ 60 sec) to be more stressful of a workout than 8 miles straight @ MP + 30 seconds.

You'll probably find that you got less TSS from 8 miles at MP+ 30 seconds though, than 6*mile or something like 5*2km on 60s with warm up and cool down. This is where the thread has really opened my mind, in the sense that like cyclists we can quantify load. Not perfectly, but that you can play around . The spreadsheets in the Strava group are a fabulous starting point for anyone interested. I think sirpoc himself even said on there I'd nothing magic about sub threshold, it's simply the key to unlocking the most load with as little stress and the most repeatability.

Excellent post, thank you.

Interesting!

My 10k pb is 36:40 (5:55 pace) and half is 1:21 (6:10 pace aprox). My 15k pace must be something like 6:00. 10x1k at 6:00 is going to be hard unless im missing something?... but I'll try.

Oh, shut up. You loved the cheap joke. Face it.

Well it’s a long workout so definitely would have to be fit to achieve it. I just ran a half in under 80’ and I could do my 1Ks w/ 1’ rest at ~5:55 pace comfortably. I would do 6-7 and not 10 however. I would be fine to do a second (longer) threshold workout of more like 8-8.5K in length 2 days later.

Would trying to squeeze in 4 sub-thresh sessions in some weeks work? Or would this lead to burnout and injury.

Yes, seems like it could if the two back to back days are shorter than the others. The other option that I haven’t seen talked about a ton is doing an alternate cycle. I like to take off every ninth or so day, so four times easy alternating with sub threshold plus a day of rest works well for me with that nine day cycle.

That's a good question. I think it really depends on the person's own ability to handle the load and, to that end, your ability to monitor your intensity real carefully. I bet if you're conservative about your workouts (like around marathon pace), you could do sub-thresholds every other day – so you'll have some weeks where there are three (Tues, Thurs, Sat) workouts but others where you have four (Mon, Wed, Fri, Sun)...then back to three the next week with Tues, Thurs, Sat.

I am not Norwegian but I am planning to do a two mile workout of 100m sprints followed by 300m easy (continuous repeats). is that in line with the ingebritzen methodology? I really want to get faster!

This is a good question, I'm going to totally contradict myself here......you could - but - I wouldn't.

Only because I think 3 sessions leaves you sometimes staring over the edge. Never quote tips me over, some weeks I could maybe manage a 4th, sometimes not. I guess the 4th on an every other day could work, but I think it's risky. Remember, this really is about gaining as much load as you can, in the quickest and most efficient way, without ever burning out. I'm still going good, injury free. Only COVID as stopped me in the last 18 months . It's always tempting to be greedy though and increase load, I come up with madcap ideas all the time then stop myself and go back to what I know works. It's easily all overthinked. I did try and make Hard2find run marathon pace 30 mins everyday to see what would happen, but then one never got off the ground ha ha If anyone does try anything a bit more aggressive, would be interesting to hear their medium to long term feedback.

This is the contradiction, if I was cycling I have done 5+ of these sessions in a week, when you are quick building after some time off, all at sweetspot (which is what sub threshold is, it's just taken on a new name). But one thing I have really learned, is the demands of running are no joke.

Now where there might be something interesting to look into and room for experimentation - is what Jiggy and Shirtboy are up to at the moment, as they are actually incorporating a lot of cycling into their week, to get in quite a bit more work. Early indications, are good, but you still need a decent amount of running on top of that, to keep you a "runner" first and foremost. What the balance is, I'm not sure. They are still very much experimenting as they go. The irony, I'm the one doing no cycling.

Excellent stuff 👍🏻 your summary is just how I feel having been doing your system for 4-5 months. I've made big improvements. I have been testing lactate as where I am pace isn't reliable, so I probably have it dialled in now though. But I also have found maybe i could squeeze in some extra work but at the end of the day you might just end up coloring outside the lines when you don't need to take that risk. 3x a week will get most of us improving. There is no glamour in this but as a masters athlete I am a step ahead of my rivals having dropped off a bit. Very grateful to the thread.

Thank you again. What I'm loving is the simplicity of the sessions and going by feel.

Three EZ, three Sub-Thresh, 1 LR.

No VO2 or vVO2...

What's the thinking behind having hard2find run marathon pace everyday? Is that still within the parameters of this training approach?

Ha ha well it was more just to see what would happen. I think we worked out if you believe you can measure load (spoiler, I do) that around half an hour a day MP would virtually = the same load as I'm currently at (with a warm up and down). The goal then seeing how sustainable, or unsustainable it is. That isn't even the worst idea that got thrown into the mix ha.

I might add, totally NOT endorsing that as a good idea, but re referencing to the fact sub threshold holds nothing particularly special about what it does, only that is probably the easiest way in running so far, that anyone has discovered creates the most manageable load, over a long period of time, for most people (not all).

If running a Vo2 max sessions a week and running a long straight tempo a week created more load and felt doable, I'd be doing that. But it doesn't and isn't .

My marathon pb from a few years ago is 2:59 so I could certainly try 6:40-6:50 pace a few days a week. Not sure it would help me though. I had to do 12x400 at 5:30-5:55 to get under 18 at parkrun.

Forgive me if this has been covered in this thread as I am only on page 5, but I'm curious. Where do Daniels' T and M paces line up with LT1/LT2 and the types of workouts that could be done with this training i.e. (20x400, 8x1k, 5x2k, etc.)?