50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

I had a 2nd week of running just over 22 miles. Slowly. I'd gotten a booster and caught a cold so that slowed the pace.

It's nice to see 50+ folks laying out their training/racing plans for 2022. My plan is to build volume gradually after an 18-month injury, and return to racing once I hit about 40mpw.

In 2013 I was a 5K/10K guy stuck on running 20mpw (low volume, high intensity) and I was bored with it. I was living in Oaxaca and befriended an ultra runner named Richard Stoutner. He took me to the ridges at 6000 ft. and above and I became a half marathoner/marathoner and never had so much fun. By 2020 I was a 60mpw guy and ran a BQ (-16:27.)

At present I'm not laying grand plans. I have to see how it goes. Sure I'd love to say I'll build to another major BQ run, but I'll keep the goals incremental for now.

Amk -- good luck with the leg strengthening! Sounds like a decent breakthrough in recovery strategy.

Happy New Year and best wishes to all for 2022.

Sorry about the double post. My laptop has a mind of it's own today.

Robert E . Lee wrote:

Can’t put weight on my left leg for first 10 or 12 steps when I awaken.

Pain seems to be located behind my knee in the soft area in the crook of the back of the knee.

Mr Lee, I've been thinking about your malady for a dew days and had an idea of what might be causing your pain. So, when in for my weekly deep tissue / rolfing/ body work earlier today, I had a convo with my super amazing therapist and it sounds as though you may have a trapped / irritated peroneal nerve (also known as fibular nerve)...a good A.R.T. practitioner could likely release it if that's the root cause

Sending good thoughts for 'muy rapido' healing.

your pal,

MF

Bunch of drivel everybody knows the rules;)

Link to the pdf of proposed revised Age Factors

https://world-masters-athletics.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/2022-Age-Factors-1.pdf

The factors are used instead of Age Group World Records

Example

First you look up the AGFactor Gender Age Event

Next you take the open world record for the Event

Then you compute the AG equivalent WR using the AGfactor:

Open WR / AGFactor = AG equivalent WR

Example M65 Mile:(wag mile WR is 3:43)

3:43 / 0.7860 = 283.7150127226463(4:43.71)

AG Percent equivalent WR simply divide your time using their figure

5:38.40 / 4:43.71 = 0.8384013378328791 percent

Impact over the years

83.84 proposed 1.67 percent drop

85.53 current 1.02 percent drop

86.51 when I turned 40.

87.58 based upon Derek Turnbulls M65 worl record

M65 WR for the mile Derek Turnbull 4:56.4

5:38.40/ 4:56.4 = 0.875886524822695

I built a DHTML front end for the tables back in 2000 that I still find useful.

I could plug in different age factors and keep the front end the same with a little effort but

never felt the need as the tables from 2000 seem pretty accurate for me. For example in row one I put in my goal M65 3000 10:45 and check the ag percent 89.73

next row put in 89.73 M43 3000 8:54.10 NFW;) yet I LOL gotta try ! Because.....

purdyish use 8:54 equates to a 4:09 1500 and I came within 3 seconds of that

and a M65 5:26 mile equates to a 10:45 3000 for M65

only ran 5:38 but that was really a time trial I was close to 5:30 had I been chasing somebody

so 4 seconds off 5:30 vs 5:26 all I gotta do is figure out the 3000 . Always enjoy training for time not much of a competitor against others nothing wrong with that. Running is more like mountain climbing than ice hockey.

Pick your menue for 2022 (Table 1):

https://www.completetrackandfield.com/a-workout-ingredient-list-for-the-cross-country-coach/

:)

Late posting because of travel and not recording runs. Think I ran about 40 miles after the marathon and another 3 hours walking on the treadmill. Have another marathon on Jan 22 if it isn't cancelled but regardless, no intentions of a good time because of the evening start time. 80 degrees at start is my guess and will just race by heart rate and ignore the slow pace. I'm feeling extremely healthy with no niggles which is a blessing and hope this continues for at least a little longer.

Went to the gym yesterday for the first time in over a year. Miss the atmosphere and the high-end treadmills. At my condo on the beach where there are health clubs unlike my new home in rural Thailand. My travel TM maxes out at 12kph so I have to put paint cans under it for harder sessions. Not ideal but does drastically reduce impact injury risk. Possibly the reason I have no niggles. Tempting to hammer on the new treadmills at speeds that cause quite a lot of muscular trauma.

AMK - keep up the good fight and hope is important IMO. I hope the weights help and confident you will find the answer with your amazing persistence.

Sounds like a plan to me, Iggy. Walking isn't running, but it's terrific medicine regardless. I spoke a few days ago with a guy selling his own watercolors on the boardwalk at Venice Beach. We vibed immediately. "I take ten mile walks," he said. "Two and a half, three hours. The first hour, I'm always saying Why am I doing this. The second hour, I'm suddenly into it. The third hour--that's the Zen phase."

Point is, it's all mental. It's all part of the dance. The dance eventually ends, but the moves are there to be figured out, and creativity is always a good idea. I've never taken a 10 mile walk. Sounds like a lot to me. But it's all mental. You'll make it happen in the way that's right for you. And that's all that any of us can do.

Like walking a lot. I go for walks when I feel tired or bad for any reason or when I feel tensed during work, e.g. before an important negotiation, presentation, webinar, etc. or unpleasant duty to do. Walking and watching the nature is wonderful. Unfortunately, my walks are limited to 1 to 1.5 hours. Would like to wander in the forest for hours.

Today I cancelled my subscription to the Farias Dystonia Recovery Program after paying a total of $70 for six sets of exercises. I still had a dozen or so left to go (they charge $35/month and only give you access to one set of exercises per week) but I concluded that this wasn’t getting me anywhere. All but one of the exercises seemed trivial and I had no problem doing them on first try for any number of repetitions, and it didn’t seem that they were getting at anything close to the root of my problem. The videos kept telling me “this is very difficult for people with dystonia” but none of them were difficult for me. Perhaps I don’t have dystonia, or I’m just not in nearly as bad shape as the people for whom the videos are intended. The one “exercise” I couldn’t do at all was one that involved imagining a green fluid moving down my body from head to fingertips and toes. I was supposed to be able to feel this nonexistent green stuff flowing down my body but I could do no such thing. I don't have a very vivid imagination.

I’ve visited a Facebook page for runner’s dystonia sufferers and many of the folks there swear by the Farias method. However, I notice all of them still have dystonia. It is not my nature to be convinced of anything just because a bunch of other people say so. What I do for a living is figure out truths about the physical world and then explain them to other people. I’m not easily led to believe things without evidence.

So I’m back to beating myself up on the leg press machine in the gym to try to address my directly observable leg strength asymmetry. In the short run the leg machine work is making things worse, but I’m hoping for some payoff in the long run.

Happy New Year Folks!

Hopefully we can all race and train well and most of all stay injury free!

Kudzu,

My wife and I grew up in Santa Monica, just to the north of Venice proper. Venice High School was in our league (conference), so know the area well. Hope you had a good visit. At 71 I just can’t handle the repeated pounding effectively. I did take a page out of your training to do some med ball exercises: overhead, side, two handed forward. About 40 tosses with an eight pound ball against a racket ball court wall.

Igy

Happy New Year everyone! Hope you all have a healthy and fit 2022.

Ran 2807 miles and xc skied another 195 miles in 2021. Highlight of the year (maybe forever) was being on the winning age group team for US Club XC in December.

Orient wrote:

amkelly,

9.69 marathon-to-5K for Rupp (2:06:07 and 13:01).

Rupp is a converted track runner, so his ratio is high. (BTW, where does 13:01 come from? His 5k PB is 12:58.) Osako's number is 9.55. For someone known as a slow track runner, Yuki Kawauchi's is 9.11.

But I think men tend to have higher ratio than women. There are many East Africans who have ridiculously low ratio (Mary Keitany for one), but they probably didn't race 5k seriously during their prime. Among non-East Africans, Mizuki Noguchi's numbers are 4.37 and 8.98, which are almost identical to amkelly's. So she has something in common with an Olympic champion.

Happy 2022, fellow 50+ers! After putting in a solid 78 miles of actual running for December, I can now report a total of 933 running miles for 2021. That’s a 13% increase over 2020! I’d love to reach 1,000 miles for the current calendar year, but that would require an injury free year. That could be a challenge at my age, but who knows?

The weather here returned to its crazy pattern with a couple of my runs done in 50° temps, but tomorrow’s forecast calling for accumulating snow. I am thankful for those occasional days in shorts. For the week, put me down for a smidge under 22 miles of actual running. With a pair of potential snow storms forecast for this week (both on scheduled running days), it may be a challenge to equal that total.

As I mentioned last week, our daughter who is staying with us over the holidays tested positive for Covid. She is asymptomatic, but isolating as much as possible. This past week she had another positive test. My spouse and I tested negative initially and will be tested again today. We both feel fine.

Finally, I am happy to see more of you following my lead and reporting med ball exercises as part of your exercise routines. My athletes and I have been doing them for years and believe strongly in their benefits. Keep up the good work!

Sun: 61’ CR; body wt ex + med ball routine

Mon: off

Tues: 54’ CR; body wt ex + med ball routine

Wed: off

Thu: 63’ CR w/ utility pole fartlek (4 x 2 on/off); body wt ex

Fri: off

Sat: 52’ CR; body wt ex + med ball routine

Best to most for a great 2022!

Happy New Year

Two weeks from today, I turn 63

11 days after that, I will have outlived my dad

Small steps

The week that was:

M- 9.5 miles: 8(800/400)@MP/10:47recovery pace

T- 6.25M - easy

W- 10M: Boston rolling hills style: 52:15 out; 47:15 in

Th- 5.65M - easy

F- 6M: last 3km in 15:15

S- 9.3M: 5km race @ 8:38 pace (huge winds and one tremendously long, hard hill that was the entire second mile)

Boston is 15 weeks away.

Enjoy the week

MagicShoes#16 wrote:

Two weeks from today, I turn 63

Cool, 2 and a half weeks from now I too turn 63.

Happy New Year everyone! Been a while since I last posted. It’s great to see all the new folks on here, injecting new energy into the thread. Really decent, intelligent folks in a positive, supportive dialogue! Can’t beat it!

I met my modest goals in 2021, racing 4 times, and hitting all the paces and times I hoped for.

For the most part I’m now running just to run for running’s sake. And that’s good enough. I’m retiring February the 7th from a job that sucks the life out of me, so, maybe…. I’ll have time and energy to do a little more training. I’ll be entering retirement with fresh legs and no injuries. Fings crossed!

Have a good one folks! I’ll check back in if I have anything interesting to report.

Hate to admit it, following Olde Farte’s lead and planning to do med ball exercises throughout 2022. Just joking, but thanks, and Kudzu too. I do believe the dynamic strength and agility will be good for this older fella. I got plenty of strength work this week. We had eight inches of snow mid-week, so much so I was shoveling 2-3 hours each day over two days. Normally less, but a neighbor’s husband now with Parkinson’s needed a hand. Once the system passed we had temperatures near zero, warming to mid-teens in the day. Yesterday took down the outdoor Christmas lights, and the Christmas tree and decorations, so busy doing other stuff. Slept ten hours last night. I suppose tired enough tgat it would count as alternative exercises. I’ll start the New Year’s plan today.

Have a good week and start to the year, oh “best to most.” 😷 Smiling while self isolating.

Igy

Squid Games Round 1, Red Light Green Light , Running . The goal is being fit on race day a fixed point in time. The problem is getting super fit for that day without getting injured. Difference is most injuries are not game ending events. You can drag yourself to the starting line but that is not a good idea.

Yep Red Light for Charlie so back to Recovery mode from Base.

Recovery,Base,Speed,Race

Sciatica left leg little pain mainly weakness glute area switched to walking hard stuff on bike lots of rehab exercises pin pointed possible cause rowing so using doughnut to keep pressure off sciatic nerve seems to help.

Happy New Year to all!

Amkelley,

Pity that the course you mentioned did not help, but as you described it, this is something surrealistic, similar to mantras and meditations. Perhaps it helps to somebody, but those in the material world would rather have hesitations and reservations. Hope you find exercises and procedures that bring you back to normal training!

CM,

Wonderful results of the year! Your mileage seems outstanding for me. Less than 1050 miles running and about 550 skiing this year here.

BTW, with regard to your “..forever…” I thought that your winning of the world (masters AG 60-64) championship in HM in 2019 is/was the outmost result. Though XC national championship is of course a top event.

RF reader,

I found Rupp’s 5K PB result through the following URL:

worldathletics.org/athletes/united-states/galen-rupp-14250207

Sorry if it’s incorrect, but 3 sec seems not to be a huge mistake.

About my week.

Unexpectedly swapped winter into summer on Tue. Had to change our initial family plans for the New Year days, and my wife insisted to go to some warmer place after a rather cold Dec. I was not fed up at all with winter as yet, and was happy with skiing, but did not object and immediately bought flight tickets to Egypt and booked a hotel there.

Were pleased to drop into quiet 75F afternoon after 4F while driving to the airport early morning.

Did not run a stride for 4 weeks and was skeptical about quick switching from skiing being also concerned with my right knee. But the problem came from another side. It looks like I got my rib(s) fractured (not just bruised) while falling on ice a week+ ago. While it was felt like an inconvenience on the left side near heart while skiing and I could tolerate it, it turned into a real pain while running on a hard road after some 25-30 min. As if an integral of small shocks reached a certain level and the body started crying “give up”. So, started taking diclofenac again and also used elliptical in the afternoon (no pain on the machine).

Mon: 10 min warm-up on elliptical, then 65 min skiing (23 min @LT by feel in the middle)

Tue: PM - 42 min running, easy

Wed: AM - 46 min running, PM – 24 min elliptical.

Thus: AM – 46 min run, incl. 6 min tempo @91-92% HRM. PM – 30 min elliptical

Fri: AM - 55 min running. Three fast segments: 1.5 km 6:15 (slight uphill and forewind), then 1:30 jog and 4 min @ 5K pace, then again 1:30 jogging and 2 min@3K pace.

Sat: PM - 52 min easy (too much food and drinks over the New Year night)

Sun: AM - 60 min running, incl. 1.5 km 6:12 (slight uphill and forewind) then 1:30 jog and 4 min @ 3K pace elevating the HR to 95% of max. PM – 25 min elliptical

Thus, 301 min running and 155 ski+elliptical. Considering 8 min/mi for running and 10 for crossfit it results in c.a. 53 miles, which is about 50% above my average.

Will switch back to snow on Tue.

Nice week to all!