50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

M62, 5'11", 180lbs

Age 23: 16:04 5K, 2:40:30 marathon

Age 43: 17:10 5K, 2:56:04 marathon

Age 58: 18:58 5K, 3:07:23 marathon

Mon- 12.8 miles @ 9:14/mi, w/ 4-mile LT (8:25/mi)

Tues- Off

Wed- Off

Thu - 5.0 @ 11:00/mi

Fri -- Off

Sat -- Off

Sun - 5.0 miles @ 9:42/mi

TOTAL: 22.8 MILES

I apparently pulled my left hamstring during Monday's Threshold effort. I've been babying it all week, but still tender today. This Thursday is a 4.4-mile race, so not much time for healing. We'll see!

I'm looking forward to a marathon in May. I'd like to break 3:45, but knee woes limit volume to 20-25 miles per week. To accomodate long runs, I'll train just two days on those weeks.

Be well!

Mon. 36 min kayak.

10.3 km run with 3 x 1 km steep hill efforts. 300 metres elevation gain. 66 mins.

Tue. 21 km mtn bike ride on rolling hills 65 mins. Straight into 5 km on hills with 3 x 800 m pickups the first one (downhill) in 3.10.

Wed. 40 min kayak.

10.8 km run in 61 mins.

Thu. 25 km mtn bike ride in 66 mins.

After work 10.30 pm. 5 km run barefoot on grass with 3 x 800 pickups.

Fri. 36 min kayak.

5.6 km jog on scrubby trails. Feeling flat and legs heavy so pulled the pin early.

Sat. A tired 36 km mtn bike ride in 109 mins.

Sun. Managed to plod through 11.5 km in 68 mins. Feeling tired after work. A bit flat and heavy legged the last few days.

i'd also like to extend my welcome to some new posters--i've been lurking but no time to post as school year and coaching season were in full swing. finally with thanksgiving break starting, a brief (or not so brief) update:

ran a few races in successive weeks in late october/november: 5k in 17:51, 8k in 28:47, 10k in 35:50, but then bonked in a x-c 6k last sunday (23:16). fought the temptation to punish myself and train harder, and instead listened to what my tired body was telling me. took it easy this week, and with somewhat fresh legs raced a 1600 on the track in 4:52-4:53 (official results haven't been posted), my first sub-5 as a 54 year old, keeping a streak alive of sub-5s every year that goes back to 1981/age 14. what i used to be able to do solo in flats now needs a full race environment and spikes, but i'll take it.

trying to see if i can advance fitness a little further in the next two weeks, but more importantly, stay healthy as club nationals approaches in december. took a page out of charlie's book and started eating raw beets almost daily. they taste better than the juice, which sometimes tastes like drinking dirt--the raw version pretty much tastes like carrots.

finally, a joe douglas update for igy: i just got back from 85th b'day dinner with joe and a bunch of smtc teammates at his house in brentwood. joe's memory is clearly worse, short term and long term, but his health is otherwise fine. unfortunately, he's now to the point where he can't drive, can't be left alone, and tonight he needed frequent reminders about who everyone was. pretty sure he felt the love in the room, so that was good, but we can only hope to have many more of these annual birthday dinners left...

carpe crepusculum,

cush

Hi Socal Cush. Congratulations at still being able to go sub 5 at 54. Regarding Joe Douglas's health, so sad to hear about that. We may be getting slower but hey at least all of us can be blessed and truly thankful that we are all still in great health for our age.

Hi guys. Hope you had a great weekend

Slowly getting back from patellar issues.

So last week

Monday AM: 30 mins jogging PM: Weights

Tuesday: Rest

Wednesday: AM: 35 mins jogging PM Weights

Thursday: Rest

Friday: 40 mins jogging .PM Weights

Saturday: Finished a painting for an art contest, that I'd been spent the previous 6 weeks on. I work with acrylics on canvas, and the genre tends to be psychedelic. Have even done one of John Walker winning the 1976Olympic 1500

Sunday: 60n minutes

This week, I will try to have a couple f back to back days although I probably won't touch the tempo stuff for a couple of weeks

Have a great week guys

Orient wrote:

Hello Christian,

For a well-fit 50 y.o. man reaching sub 20 @5k should not be a difficult task. And no complex training and planning is needed. However, it will likely require adding 4th (and maybe 5th) day with running per week.

Just double your weekly mileage (to 40 km) and add, as minimum, either one interval or one "tempo" workout per week and the result will come. Be careful while increasing the mileage, though. Not more than by 10% per week, better even less.

Good luck!

P.S. I run c.a. 50 km/week on average and at 63 is yet under 19/5k. And some older gentlemen here demonstrate much more impressive results.

Intervall training is well established as being the most efficient training at high intensities, partly since very fast paces cannot be sustained in continuous efforts and breaking up in smaller repetitions can give a lot more volume and less fatigue. This seems also to be beneficial for the tempo pace. The threshold training model many competitive runners use in Norway is based on very little or no classic continuous tempo training. They rather do 3-6-9min intervals with 1-2min rest at a very controlled pace. It seems the pace can be a bit higher, the recovery is less, the training feels easier and the adaptation is higher. I would recommend at least 2 workouts per week even if you just train 3 times a week. Do them controlled so that you could do 2-3 more without problem and such that you can breath controlled and even talk short sentences. I listened to Marius Bakken who tried both models and he was very clear what was far far better for him = Controlled threshold training as intervals from 45-10min with 15-60-120s rest. Don't bring the rest too long cause then you might be able to push harder than you should. A shorter rest is in my opinion better to control intensity.

Now and then harder intervals can be good to boost VO2 max, but this will come with the threshold training as well.

Legendary streak. My respect Cush.

and very smart to take back when the urge to do more is on.

so cal,

Thanks for the update on Joe. Like with Igloi we had many evenings alone at the Santa Monica College track. Others long gone, Joe standing in the shadows as I executed the session. One night in particular started at 5:30 pm and finished at 8:30 pm. That same day ran a morning workout with Joe at 6:00 am that lasted an hour. The routine was, I took a shower at the SMC gym then went to work at Northrop, Joe to Westchester High to teach math. Good times, and my best running by far.

Fortunately we spent some time together more than a decade ago. Breakfast and a tour of his beautiful house. I have some personal commitments winter and early spring, but still plan to get out there for a visit.

Looks like your fitness is progressing. Amazing, and good to see.

Igy

“ Don't bring the rest too long cause then you might be able to push harder than you should. A shorter rest is in my opinion better to control intensity.”

Important point from Jon.

socalcush wrote:

ran a few races in successive weeks in late october/november: 5k in 17:51, 8k in 28:47, 10k in 35:50, but then bonked in a x-c 6k last sunday (23:16). fought the temptation to punish myself and train harder, and instead listened to what my tired body was telling me. took it easy this week, and with somewhat fresh legs raced a 1600 on the track in 4:52-4:53 (official results haven't been posted), my first sub-5 as a 54 year old, keeping a streak alive of sub-5s every year that goes back to 1981/age 14. what i used to be able to do solo in flats now needs a full race environment and spikes, but i'll take it.

carpe crepusculum,

cush

Nice call with excellent result!

You probably already know of the oldest sub 5er

Derek Turnbull M 65 4:56.4 29 February 1992 Christchurch

can't beat a raw beet with garlic

Charlie wrote:

socalcush wrote:

ran a few races in successive weeks in late october/november: 5k in 17:51, 8k in 28:47, 10k in 35:50, but then bonked in a x-c 6k last sunday (23:16). fought the temptation to punish myself and train harder, and instead listened to what my tired body was telling me. took it easy this week, and with somewhat fresh legs raced a 1600 on the track in 4:52-4:53 (official results haven't been posted), my first sub-5 as a 54 year old, keeping a streak alive of sub-5s every year that goes back to 1981/age 14. what i used to be able to do solo in flats now needs a full race environment and spikes, but i'll take it.

carpe crepusculum,

cush

Nice call with excellent result!

You probably already know of the oldest sub 5er

Derek Turnbull M 65 4:56.4 29 February 1992 Christchurch

can't beat a raw beet with garlic

And Derek then ran 2.41 for the marathon in April 92.

My pb for 1500 (back in 1984) 4.20 (ran that twice) so around 4.40 for a mile which I reckon is more than 40 secs off Cush's best.

Derek Turnbull was a 4.23 miler in his early 20s and 2.00 for 880 yds.

'mopac wrote:My pb for 1500 (back in 1984) 4.20 (ran that twice) so around 4.40 for a mile which I reckon is more than 40 secs off Cush's best.

With your well-rounded training regimen, you may qualify as "fittest" amongst us here. But historically, you and I seem to be underachievers -- especially compared the talent posting here lately. Wow! Truly amazing athletes.

As for me, my best (and only) 1500 was 4:30. Mile was 4:45. Both at age 17. I never ran either distance again until my mid-40s, when I couldn't break 5:05 for the mile. Now I can't run 6:30!

Owain Lewes wrote:Finished a painting for an art contest, that I'd been spent the previous 6 weeks on. I work with acrylics on canvas, and the genre tends to be psychedelic.

Very cool! I've got two unfinished oils in my studio, and a stack of watercolors awaiting mattes and frames. Hoping to get back at it! Traditional landscapes.

Igy: Heal up!

Mike F: Nice 2-mile effort. Have fun on Thursday! My turkey trot will be a "rust-buster" as well -- first race in more than two years.

dhaaga: Good luck in the marathon. I was struggling with my then-undiagnosed knee issues prior to my most recent marathon, so sporadic training and substitute time on the elliptical machine. I wasn't sure about pace -- started at 7:30, settled in at 7:05, slowed last few miles, finished with 3:07. I'm super interested on seeing how yours plays out!

Old Farte: Good to see a relatively positive medical report. I've been putting off seeing a urologist after several years of high PSA levels (my younger brother has prostate cancer). Finally had an appt scheduled for tomorrow, but the MD decided to take a vacation this week!

amkelley: Here's hoping the Dystonia Recovery Program yields results. So far, you've been amazing at holding onto fitness, and not giving up.

old guy II: Six trail miles at 8:12 pace is enviable! Nice you can run with your son. My son and I are planning on the same spring marathon -- hoping to share a few training runs before then.

Magic Shoes: Did your MD offer any thoughts regarding your easy-pace slowdown?

Christian: Welcome.

All: Have a great week!

Allen1959 wrote:

'mopac wrote:My pb for 1500 (back in 1984) 4.20 (ran that twice) so around 4.40 for a mile which I reckon is more than 40 secs off Cush's best.

With your well-rounded training regimen, you may qualify as "fittest" amongst us here. But historically, you and I seem to be underachievers -- especially compared the talent posting here lately. Wow! Truly amazing athletes.

As for me, my best (and only) 1500 was 4:30. Mile was 4:45. Both at age 17. I never ran either distance again until my mid-40s, when I couldn't break 5:05 for the mile. Now I can't run 6:30!

I under achieved in the marathon, 2.43 at 24 years old on a windy day as a pacemaker for a lady trying to break 2.40 (to qualify for 84 OG). She ran 2.40.20.

Also ran 2.44 at 22 with temps in the mid 20s C (maybe 80 F). My best performance was a 68 min 20 km.

I had no great talent or speed but from 1980 through 1984 I ran a total of 30,000 kms.

Thanks Allen1959. When you have a moment, could you post pictures of them when you have finished the?

them?

'mopac wrote:

My best performance was a 68 min 20 km.

I had no great talent or speed but from 1980 through 1984 I ran a total of 30,000 kms.

I stand corrected! Nothing "underperforming" about that 20K. Or that mileage (kilometreage?). Wow!

OK, maybe your marathon times were a bit soft (even with the conditions, I suppose). Your 20K I think would predict 2:33 or so.

By comparison, your 20 km is the same pace as my best-ever 10 km (34:04). My 10K pretty much lines up with my other PRs.

Carry on!

Allen - the MD and I have chitchat in 10 days’ time. My slowing down is the only item in the agenda. The rest of the medical will flow from there. Thanks for asking.