This thread was deleted by a volunteer moderator. I certainly don't want a thread this big deleted so I've restored. THat being said, this thread has served it's purpose. I've closed it to new posts.
We have a new 2024 vaccine thread here. New people don't need to try to wade through 20,000 posts to figure out what is going on.
Looks like severe adverse events are, in fact, extremely rare.
The government officials were not wrong!
The many flaws of the clinical trial have been covered. It was a farce. Many adverse events weren't reported. 1 in 8 dropped out after the first dose and were NEVER accounted for. I've brought this up multiple times here and you guys want me to believe that it's normal.
Well, hey, covid was NOT normal times!
We had the biggest pandemic in modern history. People were desperate for a vaccine. Thousands signed up to volunteer. It was well known that you HAD to get two doses, yet 1 in 8 just flat disappeared after the first dose. Why? This makes no sense.
You cannot convince me that with the most important clinical trial in the history of mankind that 1 in 8 would just completely disappear after the first dose when they were told that two doses were needed! These were volunteers! They WANTED to get the vaccine. Yet they completely disappeared to all follow-ups.
Suspiciously, an almost identical number dropped out of the control group... almost down to the exact same number of dropouts. If it had been around a hundred or so one way or the other, it would have been more believable, but the number of dropouts in the vaccine and the control group were almost identical. That's not likely. I think that doctors were just told to drop some of their control subjects to get the numbers to be about even because such an alarming number of subjects dropped out after the first dose of the vaccine. I think a significant number of these subjects dropped out because they had an adverse event and didn't want to take the 2nd dose.
In short, I'm totally, absolutely not buying that the clinical trial was conducted without bias.
The difference in denominator between "vaccinated" (43,548) and "main safety subset" (37,706) is NOT due to drop out. It's due to a registration cutoff imposed to accelerate the EUA. ("Main safety subset (N=37,706) needed to have been enrolled by October 9 2020" - see appendix table S1). The fact that equal numbers of test/placebo were excluded by this cutoff simply implies excellent randomization.
The drop out / exclusion rates are show in paper for both doses, see linked figure below. Roughly 2% per arm.
Your assertion of bias implies coordinated fraud among over a hundred sites in 6 countries? United States, 130 sites; Argentina, 1; Brazil, 2; South Africa, 4; Germany, 6; and Turkey, 9.
Please stop operating from the prior of "it must have been a mass conspiracy" and then through extreme confirmation bias finding ways to force data to support the prior.
Looks like severe adverse events are, in fact, extremely rare.
The government officials were not wrong!
The many flaws of the clinical trial have been covered. It was a farce. Many adverse events weren't reported. 1 in 8 dropped out after the first dose and were NEVER accounted for. I've brought this up multiple times here and you guys want me to believe that it's normal.
Well, hey, covid was NOT normal times!
We had the biggest pandemic in modern history. People were desperate for a vaccine. Thousands signed up to volunteer. It was well known that you HAD to get two doses, yet 1 in 8 just flat disappeared after the first dose. Why? This makes no sense.
You cannot convince me that with the most important clinical trial in the history of mankind that 1 in 8 would just completely disappear after the first dose when they were told that two doses were needed! These were volunteers! They WANTED to get the vaccine. Yet they completely disappeared to all follow-ups.
Suspiciously, an almost identical number dropped out of the control group... almost down to the exact same number of dropouts. If it had been around a hundred or so one way or the other, it would have been more believable, but the number of dropouts in the vaccine and the control group were almost identical. That's not likely. I think that doctors were just told to drop some of their control subjects to get the numbers to be about even because such an alarming number of subjects dropped out after the first dose of the vaccine. I think a significant number of these subjects dropped out because they had an adverse event and didn't want to take the 2nd dose.
In short, I'm totally, absolutely not buying that the clinical trial was conducted without bias.
You're entitled to your opinion and I'm convinced it's unlikely to change, but claiming fraud based on a statistical comparison (dropouts) between vaccine and placebo groups that one would expect to be similar being "too similar" is kind of nuts.
An identical number 'dropping out' of both groups should make you think "I wonder if there was a procedural reason for this" not "those numbers are too similar it must be conspiracy."
Dropouts can happen for many, many reasons that are not adverse events. Most of them are bureaucratic or timeline issues, as seen here.
It is "the first known case of active wound treatment in a wild animal with a medical plant," biologist Isabelle Laumer told NPR. She says the orangutan, called Rakus, is now thriving.
Excellent your first step is to admit your failure. I’ll help you grow as a person
I would like to take a moment to laugh at frisky for citing comments to an online article as evidence of anything?
and Sub 9 is learning FAFO
Which Sub-9 is FAFOing? The Sub-9 stolen and deployed by Harambe before he got his a$ handed to him? Or me? Lolz.
Amazing how we’re 938 pages in, and you accomplished what exactly? You’ve compelled me to get vaccinated or convinced me I made the wrong decision not to? Again, lolz. Yes, Crohn’s Disease, I’ll take you on too😂😂😂.
Truth is stranger than fiction. That orangutan seems like an anti-vaxxer, well, unless, as a monkey, he was forced to take a shot in an early stage trial. Almost seems smart enough to ponder the use of vitamin D, ivermectin, zinc and a virucidal nasal spray rather than suffer and die on a ventilator.
I'm interrupting this flame war to provide some breaking news. An article today in the New York Times talked about vaccine adverse events! The author writes: In interviews and email exchanges conducted over several months, federal health officials insisted that serious side effects were extremely rare...
This is inaccurate. Serious side effects are not rare at all. I've been following the comments to this article all morning. I just recently posted this under the handle "Willow" my dog's name in the comments section.
I just did a count. Of the first 202 responses to this article, 33 posters said that they had experienced a significant and long-lasting vaccine adverse event. That's a 16% rate of severe adverse events. This is far greater than the "extremely" rare rates that experts are telling us. Further, there were 4 reports of deaths of friends or co-workers within a few days of vaccination. Vaccine damage is real. People need to quit gaslighting vaccine victims and encourage more to come forward with their stories. Also, we need to keep politics out of it. We need an unbiased investigation into why these vaccine adverse events have been under-reported.
Truth is stranger than fiction. That orangutan seems like an anti-vaxxer, well, unless, as a monkey, he was forced to take a shot in an early stage trial. Almost seems smart enough to ponder the use of vitamin D, ivermectin, zinc and a virucidal nasal spray rather than suffer and die on a ventilator.
This orangutan is far too smart to spend hundreds of bananas on supplements prescribed by quacks with blogs.
This post was edited 6 minutes after it was posted.
Reason provided:
sub9's friend was typing for me with their speech to text device
I'm interrupting this flame war to provide some breaking news. An article today in the New York Times talked about vaccine adverse events! The author writes: In interviews and email exchanges conducted over several months, federal health officials insisted that serious side effects were extremely rare...
This is inaccurate. Serious side effects are not rare at all. I've been following the comments to this article all morning. I just recently posted this under the handle "Willow" my dog's name in the comments section.
Truth is stranger than fiction. That orangutan seems like an anti-vaxxer, well, unless, as a monkey, he was forced to take a shot in an early stage trial. Almost seems smart enough to ponder the use of vitamin D, ivermectin, zinc and a virucidal nasal spray rather than suffer and die on a ventilator.
This orangutan is far too smart to spend hundreds of bananas on supplements prescribed by quacks with blogs.
Yes, you’re right. He should’ve been prescribed a high dose of Remdesivir and an ECMO machine.
Does he know as much as you and 2600bro about molecular biology? Do tell.
Ventilator contrarianism is a bit sad bro. Proven wrong by the end of 2020.
It was a cope for the COVID deniers who were trying to explain how so many people possibly could have died if COVID was fake or whatever.
I guess the COVID-denier – antivaxxer overlap is basically 1:1. It thought most of them had given up by now with, you know, 1 million dead Americans.
He won't even come out and say what he believes either. So hilarious weak and scared to hide behind allusions to common talking points.
So very untrue and disingenuous, but of course you know this. I’ve spent many pages stating my view. You don’t agree. Great. Who cares? What are you going to do when you are no longer relevant? Why do you think people are trolling? Nobody cares about Covid or whether you think someone who wouldn’t take the mRNA vaccines, exclusively, is an idiot.
It irritates you so painfully, palpably so that I do know a thing or two about the subject, that I insisted on agency in the decision and made the best possible decision for me and my very low risk family, and that I’m not suffering some “ill effects” of not getting vaccinated. I am a blight on your existence. But I’m not sorry about that. I’m only sorry that I seem to be able to perpetuate the dialogue, which is actually puzzling when you think about how “smart” the foils are in this battle.
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