50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

ATP Congrats 5:29 at 70 man I would have to run 5:11 to match at 65(NFW) but def motivates me to be my best. As far as does walking count as training .... seems like this is a touchy subject ... for me def counts I probably average an hour a day of walking anywhere from 20 minutes to 2 hours. My main goal is to accumulate 3 hours per day of exercise with at least 30 minutes of rowing and either an hour of bike riding or running then fill in the rest with walks. I do not count dynamic flexibility but do more and more of this stuff .

Charlie wrote:

ATP Congrats 5:29 at 70 man I would have to run 5:11 to match at 65(NFW) but def motivates me to be my best. As far as does walking count as training .... seems like this is a touchy subject ... for me def counts I probably average an hour a day of walking anywhere from 20 minutes to 2 hours. My main goal is to accumulate 3 hours per day of exercise with at least 30 minutes of rowing and either an hour of bike riding or running then fill in the rest with walks. I do not count dynamic flexibility but do more and more of this stuff .

I'm sure OGII can add a lot more detail, but, just read his logs here and the benefits of walking.

When I retire next year I will finally have more time to devote to training. I just don't have it right now. The training I first add will not be running. It will be walking.

ATP, congrats on keep tearing apart the UK master records charts!

As for recovery, an alternative I sometimes go for is an elliptigo. Also, on the next day after a hard race sauna and massage seem helpful for me.

As I work through figuring out what is effective training post-age 70, one of my starting philosophical principles was that Ed Whitlock knew what he was doing, but I am no Ed Whitlock. From several articles, Ed said that when he was healthy he ran 2-3hrs/day at a slow shuffle, and raced about once a month or more.

Recovery effort training volume is a critical piece of a good training plan at 70+. For Ed, his running gait looked super efficient and his slow shuffle was probably very efficient and a good recovery pace for him. I have found that my slow shuffle is not efficient and with it I have an HR that is too high to be really good for recovery volume. Walking at a pace like I'm late for an important meeting (14:30-15:30/mi) puts me at the right HR and is significantly less stress on the joints and connective tissue than even my slowest jogging pace. Having the large volume of walking also allows me to do my running training at slightly higher effort levels and paces than if I tried to do all my recovery at even a very slow jog. I would say that my training this year, which has been going really well, breaks down into about 50% walking, 50% sub-threshold to threshold pace running, and a very small quantity of short strides at near maximum effort.

My preference for XC racing and general circumstances has kept me off the track for several years now. I do virtually no timed interval work. My run training is all planned distances that I run at an effort level that feels right for the day and I check my pace after I'm done.

My current training is kind of the polar opposite of what I did from age 40 to my early 50s. In that period I was doing typical mid-distance training. Then I was thriving on and loving doing one short interval workout, one long interval workout, an easy 4-6mi Saturday run and a hard, progressive 12mi Sunday run. Teenage kids and long work hours made off days zero running days. If I could handle it I probably would do a steady diet of 16x400M with 0:30 jog recovery workouts as that's the sort of run effort I love.

Inspirational video, Charlie. I don't have any expectation of world records. I didn't have any great hopes for this summer, so it's been a complete surprise. As for inspiration, at one time I considered adopting the training style of the late great Ed Whitlock, but I find I haven't the patience so I now aim for shorter faster runs. Above all, I am trying to maintain consistency and to avoid injury.

Finished 2nd in AG at the local half marathon yesterday. Passed an old looking guy about 400m from the finish, and it turned out he was in my AG. The first place guy won the maters title (and $200 cash prize), so I was promoted to the 1st place and got a bottle of amino supplement along with my plaque. It was a not a particularly hot day (low 70s at the start), but very humid (90+%) and the course was hilly, so the time was rather unremarkable (1:44:48). Still it was three plus minutes faster than two years ago on the same course. (I think it was hotter on that day.) No split worse than 5:10/km even on the toughest uphill section, so I think my biweekly hill repeats worked. Another half marathon in 11 weeks, on a flat course, and hopefully under better weather.

But the most interesting thing about this race was the name of one of the top finishers: Abebe Sisay Gebremariam. What a name for a runner! Abebe Bikila. Sisay Lemma and Gebregziabher Gebremariam rolled into one. I guess all three are pretty common in Ethiopia, but pretty impressive.

Across the Pond - As a 64-year-old I'm in awe of your performances.

My own 10k race this weekend was thwarted. Arrived at Coos Bay to find that the RRC 10k Championship/Prefontaine Memorial had been cancelled.

I'd entered on line, but never received an e-mail or written notification. Waiting to see if they have refunded my card.

Took out my frustrations on Sunday hammering a 5.56 mile run with 108ft elevation gain and loss. Ended up with 36:52, close to 40:55 pace for a 10k.

I feel as if on a flat course in racing shoes and with some company (and a warm-up - just started hammering out of the gate here) at least 40:30 is possible. That's close to age graded best.

So, disappointed about not getting to race after focusing on a target for 6 months, but happy to get to that sort of shape after struggling to run 2 miles at 8 min per mile at the start of the year (and not being able to move the next day) after three months off.

Had some excellent physio on my inflexible ankle which is giving me an opportunity to work it through a greater range of motion and strengthen the somewhat atrophied calf.

All in all feeling positive.

Cavorty,

Improvement of your shape in 6 months is impressive, indeed. I wish you catch a right race (course, weather) and make it well under 40:30.

OG II,

Thanks for your detailed description of the race, very interesting and insightful. Also, I always read with great attention your thoughts about training for 65+ and 70+ ones. Hope I will survive and follow them. At the moment (at my 63+) I am yet skeptical about walking as part of training because the HR seems too low.

Dhaaga,

Congrats on your 10-miler (and my apologies for being late with them). And good luck with HM on the next weekend. Looks too short as a rest period between two LRs, but you are definitely much better trained than me.

‘mopac,

I was glad to join your “mountain club”, at least for two weeks during my vacation. My average elevation gain (per day or per week) is now similar as yours, and I see that it’s indeed some effort.

Igy,

Congrats on your former students’ promotion to the Hall of Fame. Something to be really proud of.

NDJY,

Nice mile race. And planks are good stuff. Me too, plan to give it more attention after my injuries are over.

Racerdb,

Good to know you resumed racing regularly. I understand that the results are way far from your recent past, but I wish you come back to the world elite soon.

Just ran a fast interval workout and was surprised how easily I held fast paces. The weight loss( 170 to 160 lbs) is making a big difference and I could still lose 5 if extremely motivated.

Thinking about doing a 5k when things open up here and never have raced this distance. For some reason, they are labeled "fun" runs here at the other distance races. The competitions is very weak.

Anyhow, if I could hold 5:20 for 2 miles which I could have done today but it would have been race effort, what do you think I cold do for 5k? I ran 1 mile @5:18 then two 400 meters in 4:52 with 1:20 rest.

It seems many of you here race this distance often and thanks for any input.

17:32

Thought much faster but maybe that is my current fitness. I'm an optimist. I usually feel I can hold faster paces than I actually can on race day. That is slower than my 10K pace when fit and I'm not to far off from my fitness level when running sub 35 minute 10ks a couple years ago. No 5k races or any races for that matter here anytime soon so I'll go with 17:32 as a goal.

At age 55 I ran 3,000m at 10:24 and 5,000m at 18:02; so just did kind of a guesstimate. Your intuition is more accurate, according to Daniels a 10:37 2 mile is VDOT 60 and the equivalent 5,000m is 17:03.

On a track with competition perfect weather sub 17 since you are moving down in distance you will need to work on race pace without burning up your aerobic system you must be able to run at vo2max effort that is about 2 mile race pace. I love the 5000 but I can't handle the training. Good Luck;)

I should probably just toughen up and run a solo 5k. Sounds miserable but the weather here is now not too hot. Long drive to find a flat 5k piece of asphalt but need to drive into the big city for building supplies soon which has a couple of running parks that are flat enough. A track just opened in the city but for some reason am slower on a track. Counting laps messes with my confidence.

Thanks for the input.

I also struggle with Vmax sessions. Rarely touch this speed other than short repeats. 17 ish is possible and done many times in the recent past but it would not happen currently. Without racing and all my training is solo for the last 18 months, I haven't held this pace for more than 2 miles. I think I could do 17:30 though on a solo run which I'm cool with until thing open up here and I can race.

BigMango,

My estimate is 17:15-17:30 based on your 5:20 per mile for 2 miles and taking into account you are used for 10K (and not attempt 5k from 1500 or a mile).

Anyway, your shape is very impressive. Good luck!

I agree and 17:15 running alone would be a struggle. 17:30 solo is the goal and 16:45 in a race end of year if the races aren't cancelled.

You should be able to get under 17. The last time I broke 17 in 2016 at the 5k road champs, I ran my first two miles in 5:19.5 & 5:17.5. The third mile was 5:44 but still finished in 16:54 and won the 55-59.

So if you die only half as much as I did, you would still be way under 17:00!

Fwiw... I was only able to run a 17:45 6 weeks before so there is such a thing as 'Race day magic'!

Dave

Checking in for a bit here. Wow ATP you are killing it. Congrats on Cherry Blossom AG win dhaaga. Big Mango, yeah mid or low 17 looks good. Usually takes a few outings to bring the 5K times down if you haven't raced in a while.

Have been at a plateau all year, and actually since last fall. No breakouts but running consistently and getting some good workouts in. Not at same level as 2017-19 before the SI injury but healthy and getting in the work.

Ran USATF masters 12K champs in NJ last weekend and came up short of the goal (45 min and 90% age grade). The day was pretty good, but also a little warm and windy. Low 70s with a 12 mph headwind (heading out) on a mostly out and back (some small loops in Ft. Hancock on the far north end of the course). I hit mile splits 6:02-6:13 through 10K but the wheels kind of fell off for a chunk there--even though the wind was at our back and was running 6:20s for several minutes, but a couple guys went by and then a runner from my age group caught up, so had to dig over the last 400-500 m, closing at 4:20s pace for final 200 or so according to my garmin. Held onto 2nd place in age by 0.3 clock time (1 sec gun time), in 45:48. Great to be back on the circuit for the one time this year and to see so many familiar faces. American records broken for W 45 and 65, and M 65. Course is great and the race was well organized. 12K is an odd distance, felt harder than a 10K or 15K, both of which I have a decent pace sense.