Down goes the Dow

Flagpole wrote:

coach d wrote:

And BTW, Flagpole, the only mutual funds that come even close to this ROR for the last 5 years have 2-3X leverage or extremely high risk. That's why if you want to retire early as a millionaire or close to it, you invest in stocks, not mutual funds.

Nah. I can and will retire early, and others can do it too...on mutual funds. You don't need a HUGE return over time to be able to retire with a lot of money and "early".

Just something to keep in mind, statistically, people that retire early tend to live 7 years less on average than those that retire at 65 or older.

Nature Boy wrote:

Just something to keep in mind, statistically, people that retire early tend to live 7 years less on average than those that retire at 65 or older.

1) Show me the stats on that, brother.

2) I could see it being true actually, but it's skewed, because the REASON that some people retire early is to deal with a potentially deadly illness (and many of them succumb). My father retired at age 61 due to a rare blood cancer when he had planned to work until 65. At the time the cancer was considered "incurable" but he because the first person ever to have it go into remission, and now he's 73 and has been cancer free for almost 10 years.

3) Don't kid yourself though...people like to talk themselves into working until they are 70 or older with stats like the one you just threw out...makes them feel good about not planning for the future. One of my personal heroes is a guy I know who saved his pennies, retired at age 51 from a high-powered corporate job and travels the world with his wife running marathons...he's now in his late 70s and still running.

Klondike5 wrote:

If at year's end I have been proven mistaken, I will consider my next move.

We're nearly there and it looks like K5 was mistaken. What's your next move?

Pointing Out the Obvious wrote:

Klondike5 wrote:

If at year's end I have been proven mistaken, I will consider my next move.

We're nearly there and it looks like K5 was mistaken. What's your next move?

You folks who criticize K5 really have no clue. The dude's consistently shown he is smarter than everyone else on this thread.

Flagpole wrote:

Nature Boy wrote:

Just something to keep in mind, statistically, people that retire early tend to live 7 years less on average than those that retire at 65 or older.

2) I could see it being true actually, but it's skewed, because the REASON that some people retire early is to deal with a potentially deadly illness

Show me the stats on that, brother.

ED WARD wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

2) I could see it being true actually, but it's skewed, because the REASON that some people retire early is to deal with a potentially deadly illness

Show me the stats on that, brother.

Stats? Stats? I don't need no stinkin stats.

Are you new? Flagpole doesn't use statistics to back up his arguments. He just uses personal anecdotes.

ED WARD wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

2) I could see it being true actually, but it's skewed, because the REASON that some people retire early is to deal with a potentially deadly illness

Show me the stats on that, brother.

jetson wrote:

Are you new?

Flagpole doesn't use statistics to back up his arguments. He just uses personal anecdotes.

ED WARD wrote:

Show me the stats on that, brother.

No, not new.

And Flaggy is my hero!

ED WARD wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

2) I could see it being true actually, but it's skewed, because the REASON that some people retire early is to deal with a potentially deadly illness

Show me the stats on that, brother.

The first two links are just articles that list health reasons as a top 5 reason why people retire. The last link has some stats for you.

And, these were easily gotten...many more links with stats on this. Easy for you to have gotten. I'm not one to throw out stats for every assertion I make, and I don't make them based on lack of evidence.

Flagpole: I take it you did not even read the 31 year old study you linked.

LOL

flaggy, did you write that "study?"

a favorite quote from the non-study. so flagpole-esque.

"I cannot, of course, give any solid factual evidence

that this is so, but rather base my views on general rea-

soning as it relates to people in the real world."

jetson wrote:

LOL

flaggy, did you write that "study?"

a favorite quote from the non-study. so flagpole-esque.

"I cannot, of course, give any solid factual evidence

that this is so, but rather base my views on general rea-

soning as it relates to people in the real world."

Translation: it's common sense.

That's fine and dandy, Flagpole. But nothing in those links addresses the skewing of early retirees dying 8 years earlier than others.Sure, people stop working sooner b/c of illness (800/year according to one of your links). That's common sense. They also do to take care of ill relatives (including children), enjoy life, go part-time, etc.

Flagpole wrote:

ED WARD wrote:

Show me the stats on that, brother.

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/On-Retirement/2012/05/23/5-reasons-people-retire-unexpectedly-earlyhttp://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/On-Retirement/2013/12/05/5-common-reasons-people-retire-earlyhttp://www.socialsecurity.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v45n9/v45n9p10.pdf

The first two links are just articles that list health reasons as a top 5 reason why people retire. The last link has some stats for you.

And, these were easily gotten...many more links with stats on this. Easy for you to have gotten. I'm not one to throw out stats for every assertion I make, and I don't make them based on lack of evidence.

ED WARD wrote:

That's fine and dandy, Flagpole. But nothing in those links addresses the skewing of early retirees dying 8 years earlier than others.

Sure, people stop working sooner b/c of illness (800/year according to one of your links). That's common sense. They also do to take care of ill relatives (including children), enjoy life, go part-time, etc.

1) The number mentioned by another poster was 7 years earlier, not 8.

2) 7 years was just stated by a poster. We have no evidence that that is true.

3) As you mentioned, there are some stats (both pro and con actually) in the third link especially that talk about people retiring early to deal with health issues. 18% of them who retired before age 62 according to one set of data, died before the study was complete.

4) Yes, people retire early for all kinds of reasons. I just don't buy that because you retire early it means that you will die 7 years earlier than you would have if you continued working longer (I know the guy didn't say that, but by bringing up the stat, he is suggesting to stave off death by working longer). It's just not that black and white...there are reasons that some people die earlier that MIGHT lead to a stat that says you will die 7 years earlier if you do.

Flagpole wrote:

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/On-Retirement/2012/05/23/5-reasons-people-retire-unexpectedly-earlyhttp://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/On-Retirement/2013/12/05/5-common-reasons-people-retire-earlyhttp://www.socialsecurity.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v45n9/v45n9p10.pdf

The first two links are just articles that list health reasons as a top 5 reason why people retire. The last link has some stats for you.

And, these were easily gotten...many more links with stats on this. Easy for you to have gotten. I'm not one to throw out stats for every assertion I make, and I don't make them based on lack of evidence.

You've actually got the retirement versus death age thing backwards: The earlier you retire, the longer you live. This is from a study funded by Boeing:

And this is why the #1 thing the mutual fund industry doesn't want to talk about--long term rate of return--is important.

coach d wrote:

You've actually got the retirement versus death age thing backwards: The earlier you retire, the longer you live. This is from a study funded by Boeing:

http://www.frugal-retirement-living.com/can-I-retire-early.html

And this is why the #1 thing the mutual fund industry doesn't want to talk about--long term rate of return--is important.

Ok...this is interesting. Remember I'm not adamant either way. I can IMAGINE that retiring early might be due to a health issue so that you die soon after, but I can also imagine that NOT being the case. My only issue really was that I didn't buy the fact that if you retire early you will necessarily die sooner too. If keeping my nose to the grindstone adds years to my life, then those aren't years I necessarily want.

coach d wrote:

Flagpole wrote:http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/On-Retirement/2012/05/23/5-reasons-people-retire-unexpectedly-earlyhttp://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/On-Retirement/2013/12/05/5-common-reasons-people-retire-earlyhttp://www.socialsecurity.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v45n9/v45n9p10.pdf

The first two links are just articles that list health reasons as a top 5 reason why people retire. The last link has some stats for you.

And, these were easily gotten...many more links with stats on this. Easy for you to have gotten. I'm not one to throw out stats for every assertion I make, and I don't make them based on lack of evidence.

You've actually got the retirement versus death age thing backwards: The earlier you retire, the longer you live. This is from a study funded by Boeing:

http://www.frugal-retirement-living.com/can-I-retire-early.html

And this is why the #1 thing the mutual fund industry doesn't want to talk about--long term rate of return--is important.

that says “[A]mong blue-collar workers, we see that workers who retire earlier have a higher mortality rates and these effects are pretty large.”

so does this:

In a prospective cohort study of thousands of employees who worked at Shell Oil, the investigators found that embarking on the Golden Years at age 55 doubled the risk for death before reaching age 65, compared with those who toiled beyond age 60,

__

personally, I don't think I know any retired men who have created much of a life after work. Maybe one or two, arguably. Most just watch tv and get progressively unhealthier and dumber.

women are better at creating social connections that keep them sharper.

agip wrote:

personally, I don't think I know any retired men who have created much of a life after work. Maybe one or two, arguably. Most just watch tv and get progressively unhealthier and dumber.

women are better at creating social connections that keep them sharper.

This ^ is the unfortunate truth.

Recognizer of Brilliance wrote:

agip wrote:

personally, I don't think I know any retired men who have created much of a life after work. Maybe one or two, arguably. Most just watch tv and get progressively unhealthier and dumber.

women are better at creating social connections that keep them sharper.

This ^ is the unfortunate truth.

I suspect agip was being facetious. Retired people today are infinitely more active and social than they were a couple of decades ago.