What will it take for a new mile WR?

Thank you for sharing your beliefs.

rekrunner wrote:

Thank you for sharing your beliefs.

Sounds like you're taking a church collection. Now I see why your posts are a kind of liturgy.

For the Russian women steroids & EPO post-90, and steroids & blood transfusions pre-90s.

(IAAF BLOOD-TESTING 2001-2012: IAAF’s RESPONSE TO ALLEGATIONS OF BLOOD DOPING IN ATHLETICS):

"2.7 The Sunday Times also highlighted the women's 1500 metres final at the 2005 World Championships in Helsinki, on 14 August 2005, which was won by Tatyana Tomashova of

Russia, with her compatriots Yuliya Chizhenko-Fomenko, Olga Yegorova and Yelena Soboleva

coming 2nd, 3rd and 5th respectively (although Chizhenko-Fomenko was subsequently

disqualified for obstructing another runner and so Yegorova and Soboleva were moved up to

2nd and 4th respectively):

2.7.1 The Sunday Times noted that blood samples taken from those athletes on the day of

the final produced OFF-scores of 129 (Tomashova), 140 (Chizhenko-Fomenko), 124

(Yegorova) and 136 (Soboleva), and said: ‘The odds against all four teammates in the

same race having naturally high off-scores was in the trillions. There could only be

one conclusion given the improbable coincidence of such outlandish results. The

experts believe they were cheating’."

All four (4) of those of OFF-scores would have met the 99.9 specificity sufficient enough for hematological-anomalies ban under ABP guidelines - 2009. Chizhenko-Fomenko was a burner with her PB 20th all-time fastest just a few 10ths of seconds slower than the fastest Soviet women pre-90s, Kazankina, who held the WR for 13 yrs before being broken by another doper; China's Junxia in 1993. Yegorova & Tomashova both have PBs in the top 40 all-time best. Tomashova is a 2-time WC and 2-time Olympic silver medalist. The mid-distance were the signature events for the Soviet & Russian women over several decades. Masterkova, another 3:56 speedster, held the mile WR set in the late 90s for a couple decades before being broken by Hassan last year.

Keep in mind the relative aerobic energy system contribution for the 1500 m (female) is *86%* (Energy System Contribution to 1500- And 3000-metre Track Running/Duffield et al). That's higher than for men (77%) which means the 1500 female athletes would benefit significantly from any form of O2-vector doping. So, it's not just androgens for the women's 1500m.. The Soviet women were using roids & transfusions pre-90s with the switch to a more convenient and easier use of EPO post-90s.

Armstronglivs wrote:

gggyyy wrote:

And it's not just you. He insults people whenever they disagree with him. Multiple times a day.

He is a rude man.

Do you feel left out? How rude of me.

Lol no.

No one likes you. I pity you.

Yes -- it looks like the Russian women blood doped, in addition to steroids.

In a thread about what it takes to break the mile world record, none of the Russian women broke 4:00 at Helsinki in 2005, about 10 seconds or more slower than the world record at that time.

Armstronglivs wrote:

So my substantive points were all "beside the point". The "point" is what you choose to believe, according to your entrenched bias. You duck what you can't refute. Fake arguments, as usual.

I have to correct myself -- for kicks I went back to look for a substantive point to refute, but couldn't find one.

rekrunner wrote:

Yes -- it looks like the Russian women blood doped, in addition to steroids.

In a thread about what it takes to break the mile world record, none of the Russian women broke 4:00 at Helsinki in 2005, about 10 seconds or more slower than the world record at that time.

Cute. Championship races (remember Centro?) are not always fast, and the 1500 m world record at that time was from an admitted doper.

More facts about the women:

Outdoor mile world record history since 1980

2019 Hassan* (banned drug cheat coach Salazar, only Dutch in the infamous 2016 likely doping list)

1996 Masterkova (Russian…)

1989 Ivan (Romania, Eastern Bloc state-sponsored doping)

1985 Decker (banned drug cheat)

1982 Puica (Romania, Eastern Bloc state-sponsored doping)

1982 Decker (banned drug cheat)

1981 Veselkova (Soviet Union, Eastern Bloc state-sponsored doping)

1980 Decker (banned drug cheat)

Outdoor 1500 mile world record history since 1980

2015 Dibaba (prosecuted drug cheat coach Aden)

1993 Yunxia (admitted drug cheat)

1980 Kazankina, 2x (Soviet Union, Eastern Bloc state-sponsored doping)

* To answer the thread question "What will it take for a new mile WR?":

The IAAF to ratify Hassan’s 4:12.

gggyyy wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Do you feel left out? How rude of me.

Lol no.

No one likes you. I pity you.

Gee, thanks.

rekrunner wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

So my substantive points were all "beside the point". The "point" is what you choose to believe, according to your entrenched bias. You duck what you can't refute. Fake arguments, as usual.

I have to correct myself -- for kicks I went back to look for a substantive point to refute, but couldn't find one.

It's not often that you are modest about the limitations in your intelligence.

It's not often that the situation arises.

Armstronglivs wrote:

It's not often that you are modest about the limitations in your intelligence.

casual obsever wrote:

Cute. Championship races (remember Centro?) are not always fast, and the 1500 m world record at that time was from an admitted doper.

More facts about the women:

Outdoor mile world record history since 1980

2019 Hassan* (banned drug cheat coach Salazar, only Dutch in the infamous 2016 likely doping list)

1996 Masterkova (Russian…)

1989 Ivan (Romania, Eastern Bloc state-sponsored doping)

1985 Decker (banned drug cheat)

1982 Puica (Romania, Eastern Bloc state-sponsored doping)

1982 Decker (banned drug cheat)

1981 Veselkova (Soviet Union, Eastern Bloc state-sponsored doping)

1980 Decker (banned drug cheat)

Outdoor 1500 mile world record history since 1980

2015 Dibaba (prosecuted drug cheat coach Aden)

1993 Yunxia (admitted drug cheat)

1980 Kazankina, 2x (Soviet Union, Eastern Bloc state-sponsored doping)

* To answer the thread question "What will it take for a new mile WR?":

The IAAF to ratify Hassan’s 4:12.

Correct. Championships are not always fast, and this is a thread about world record times.

From the example with the women and the 1500m, we can how significant the eastern-bloc and Russian performances pre-EPO era were, and still are today, with Kanzankina from 1980 still ranked #7 all time.

We can also see that the mile was much weaker than the 1500m, for the women in the '80s.

rekrunner wrote:

It's not often that the situation arises.

Armstronglivs wrote:

It's not often that you are modest about the limitations in your intelligence.

Yet you have much to be modest about.

rekrunner wrote:

From the example with the women and the 1500m, we can how significant the eastern-bloc and Russian performances pre-EPO era were, and still are today, with Kanzankina from 1980 still ranked #7 all time.

Yeah mid-distances in the 80s, a freak show...

Decker is also #7 all time in the mile, and Coe even #3! (ok 800, so also mid-distance but not mile)

I don't follow you on this one: Kanzankina was doped to the gills and was a high-responder of the Soviet-era state sponsored doping program - so her time is insane. However, you have six (6) women running faster (3 of those running much faster) in the EPO-era. Start with the WR holder, Dibaba @ 3:50.07. That time is SUPERHUMAN beating Kanzankina's PED-powered time by almost 2 1/2 freaking seconds! Then the 2nd, 3rd, 4th & 5th fastest are the PED-Powered Chinese contingent of Yunxia, Jiang Bo, Yinglai, & Junxia. And finally Hassan holds the 6th fastest position. In fact, two (2) more Chinese have spots in the the top-10 making the Chinese holding six (6) spots of the top-10 all-time fastest positions in the history of the women's 1500m - totally insane! ? Only Kanzankina and Ivan of Romania hold top-10 spots from performances pre-EPO. So, if you want to see the influence EPO had on this event look at how the Chinese completely turned the event upside down making a mockery of it! They weren't on the scene running those kind of times pre-EPO and once thec test became available they disappeared off the face of the Earth (remember their coach "Ma" withdrew his team from the Sydney Olympics when it's was revealed that a test for EPO would be used).

That's speaking the truth wrote:

I don't follow you on this one: Kanzankina was doped to the gills and was a high-responder of the Soviet-era state sponsored doping program - so her time is insane. However, you have six (6) women running faster (3 of those running much faster) in the EPO-era.

You are falling into his trap: he spoke the truth, and casually albeit correctly threw "pre-EPO" into that sentence instead of "Cold War era", which would have been more relevant to Kanzankina, Decker et al.

What aren't you following, when I say Kanzakina had a very fast time, that is still #7 some 40 years later? Of course 6 women ran faster, later. That is why she is now #7.

You seemed to follow it, because you repeated it.

casual obsever wrote:

That's speaking the truth wrote:

I don't follow you on this one: Kanzankina was doped to the gills and was a high-responder of the Soviet-era state sponsored doping program - so her time is insane. However, you have six (6) women running faster (3 of those running much faster) in the EPO-era.

You are falling into his trap: he spoke the truth, and casually albeit correctly threw "pre-EPO" into that sentence instead of "Cold War era", which would have been more relevant to Kanzankina, Decker et al.

Speaking the truth, and saying correct things in sentences is a trap?

"Pre-EPO" was an important part of the point, as she is still ranked #7, without the aid of synthetic EPO.

rekrunner wrote:

casual obsever wrote:

You are falling into his trap: he spoke the truth, and casually albeit correctly threw "pre-EPO" into that sentence instead of "Cold War era", which would have been more relevant to Kanzankina, Decker et al.

Speaking the truth, and saying correct things in sentences is a trap?

"Pre-EPO" was an important part of the point, as she is still ranked #7, without the aid of synthetic EPO.

....with the aid of "blood doping." Do you need a refresher course? Blood transfusions & synthetic EPO produce the same results, i.e. increase RBCs & elevate Hct which improves an athlete's aerobic capacity (VO2 max) and endurance. The Soviets were using blood doping in the 70s & 80s. Kanzankina was using blood transfusions and steroids and was the Soviet's golden girl for the 1500. Fast forward to the EPO-era and it's synthetic EPO and steroids & HGH -- "02-vector doping" using a more convenient and easier way than transfusions. The dopers of the EPO-era could easily & conveniently increase RBCs & elevate Hct without the hassle of blood transfusions, i.e., downtime from the withdrawal phase, storage, & refrigeration of blood bags, reinfusion phase and cost. This made EPO very practical for those who wanted nothing to do with transfusions or didn't have the resources for it. Large amounts of pre-packaged EPO could easily be transported and utilized at altitude training camps (e.g, Aden's doping camp at Sabadell) for a several week build-up period before dropping down to competition venues in the off-phase period. Quite a bit more difficult to do that with blood transfusions. I don't know why I'm repeating this - you know this as well as anyone else. That's why I think you're trolling most of the time - (you want to liven up these doping conversations? ?).

I don't know why you are repeating this either. It doesn't really seem to be related to this thread or anything I said.