Sub 3HR Fall Marathon Thread - The quest for less amateur glory begins?

Thanks for the feedback. A few comments.

1 - The workout on Saturday was with a running group. It was the first time I have had anybody to run with so that definitely helped. I followed a couple of guys for the first 4-5 miles then ran the last 5 by myself.

2 - I have zero racing experience. I ran a mile when I was 15 and a 5k when I was 14 but have otherwise done no distance races ever. I am however a fan so know quite a bit about the sport from a spectator standpoint.

3 - The weight loss and fitness gain have been pretty dramatic since I started running on June 16. It has been hard to pinpoint goals when I am running 10 at an average mile pace considerably faster than I could run an all-out mile when I first started. When I enrolled in the half my goal was to finish... then it was 1:40, then 1:35, now I am thinking 1:30... so there has been an evolution.

4 - I think it is important given my history and where I am coming from to not totally bonk on this race. I want to finish strong even if I am not extracting every minute I could based on my training. I definitely want to run conservatively and chase people down.

5 - I am hoping how you describe your 1:23 is how my race unfolds. That is basically how the 10 miler went! I didn't realize how fast I was running until it was too late.

Just realized I replied with my registered account so guess I will stick with this.

Congrats by the way on that 1:23. That is a great time!

Good on you for getting into shape! I can definitely see how it's tough to pinpoint goals with such dramatic progress and weight loss, but must be thrilling to see such improvement too.

Don't do anything you're not comfortable with--if that means starting out the pace slower than your fitness, go right on ahead. I think lots of runners (myself included) have had the unfortunate experience of starting out too fast and fading over a race. It's much more enjoyable, and a good confidence boost, to start out a bit slower and progress from there--negative splitting and passing runners at the end. In other words, best to leave something out there and gain confidence than bonk and get disheartened. Obviously I'm not telling you anything you haven't already said!

And for what it's worth, I think your idea for the cut back in mileage is sensible. It's basically what I did as well. I took a couple days of complete rest the week before the HM. One thing that gave me a confidence boost was doing a 7 miler in the middle of the week with 3x 1 mile at "comfortably hard" pace without minding my watch (they ended up averaging 6'25). With a few days rest in my legs, those 3 miles went really smoothly and were a great confidence boost.

Can't wait to hear how you do. Keep us posted and good luck!

HalfMarathonFirstTimeGuy wrote:

1:35 seems a little soft but I do want to set myself up for success.

That's more than a little soft. 1:25 is a better goal, and certainly realistic.

A goal of 1:28 would be super conservative and guarantee success. Run that pace to 11 miles then crank the last two?

Honesty, your pace for 10 hilly miles on Saturday should be doable for 13.1 tapered and in a race situation. That would be a 1:24 half marathon. What's the race course like?

Your taper plan is fine. Tell me, though, how you dropped 50 pounds in only three months! That's incredible. I could benefit from losing 5 or 10, and can't manage it.

Labanon - Thank you for taking the time to provide me advice. I will probably steal that 7 miler and run it Wednesday before race day. Unfortunately I don't think I can afford to take too much time off that last week. Last week was my first week over 50 miles (previous were 47, 38, 27, 22). That said I don't count cross training as mileage and have slowly faded that out as I have faded in more running. In short, I am not sure I have the base fitness to dial it back too much without ramifications.

Last chance - I appreciate the feedback. I am thinking more and more I will go out with the 1:30 pace group and try to start chasing people down in the back half of the race. The race course is the BAA Half so it is a little bit hilly but not as bad as the course from Saturday. As far as how I lost 50 pounds in 3 months. No real secret:

1 - I was a pretty bad alcoholic. I have gone completely sober (and plan to remain that way). Beyond the weight loss advantage from not drinking 1k calories some days, I also stay away from drunk guy food. Being healthier and happier is an added advantage! I estimate I was probably eating 5k-7k calories some days with no exercise. My body was essentially a 2 inch blubber suit spread across my entire physique. You wouldn't have said I had a beer belly. I was just massive.

2 - I now stick to 2500-3000 calories a day and have focused on consistency. I eat 3 equally sized meals a day and try to limit carbs. I also have 2 small snack of nuts or fruit. I no longer count calories but pretty much eat the same thing for every meal.

3 - I have exercised everyday without fail for the last 3 months. At first it was all cross-training, then some running and now all running.

4 - I have found my metabolism has bounced back as I am still somewhat young (all things considered). I will probably target 180 - 183 for race day. I can probably safely get into the 170s but that is about it for me. I am a powerfully built individual.

last chance runner wrote:

hello there. wrote:

Any thoughts on warming up for the marathon? I'm thinking I may need to do a mile and strides to get the engine revved.

My rule of thumb: For sub-3 marathons, jog about a half mile, run a few easy strides like 5K pace. For slower marathons, no warmup, just start easy and ease into marathon pace after the first mile.

I would agree with this. Also, you'll hopefully be a bit tapered, so will likely feel better the first mile of the race, compared to when you're tired in the middle of a training block.

Hi all!

I've been battling a cold again.. But managed to fight it off in the end and my week ended pretty good with a 1:22:52 half i copehagen. Was pretty cool to see Kamworor beat the world record!

Mon: OFF

Tue: 11k at M-pace (6'40). Cut this one short as I felt really lousy and felt an infection on the rise.

Wed: OFF

Thu: Jog 6k at 8min/mi. Felt really bad, but needed to keep the legs going

Fri: Jog 6,3k at 8min/mi + 5x strides. Felt much better.

Sat: jog 4k at 9min/mi

Sun: Cph half race. 1:22:52

Race recap:

I was happy that I felt much better than earlier in the week. Had no idea how my body would react though. So my plan was to run this race and leave a bit in the tank and not go all out. So, figured I'd stick to 6'24min/mi for a 1:24:24 finish to start with and then reassess after a few km.

Conditions were perfect! cloudy, 55 F, but quite heavy wind. It didn't really affect the race so much as the houses in the city center gives shelter and the direction of the wind was perfect for the parts where it mattered.

Started at 6'24 and hit 5k on 20:00. Perfect. Felt really good and my body responded well. Somewhere around here I ended up in no mans land. There was a big group just in front of me, and then I had one behind me. So, either I catch the group in front or I wait for the one behind. Felt good, so I sat in the group in front. Then basically just cruised. Hit 10k at 39:40 and then 15k at 59:14. Felt totally in control but needed to focus a bit between 16-20k. Passed the finish line in 1:22:52. Having run all 5ks at negative splits. Not bad for 47yr old. Happy with that. Psyched to keep it up a few more weeks and then aim for sub 3 october 20th!

Race times(5k): 19:58 - 19:43 - 19:35 - 19:29 - 4:10.

Northener wrote:

Passed the finish line in 1:22:52. Having run all 5ks at negative splits. Not bad for 47yr old. Happy with that. Psyched to keep it up a few more weeks and then aim for sub 3 october 20th!

Super result Northener. You are for sure ready to run sub-3. I would think 2:55 or faster. What are you planning for the next few weeks?

Awesome race northener! Really cool to see the 5k split progression. Too bad about the sickness but didn’t seem to impact you too much. Would be curious as well to see what you have planned leading up to your target race.

last chance runner wrote:

Super result Northener. You are for sure ready to run sub-3. I would think 2:55 or faster. What are you planning for the next few weeks?

Thank you! Really pleased with the result and that I felt in control the whole way. To be honest I don't care if I run 2.55 or 2.59, I just want to be back sub3. It all will come down to how I feel on race day and the weather..

My training is since last year is based on bigger workouts and more rest. i responded well to that. Basically old man training regimen :-) So in general I do M-pace, 800s and longruns (with 5k M pace in the end) and rest the days in between or go really slow (8-9m/mi).

this and next week is big weeks, then starts the taper. So this is what I plan to do:

wk0: skip M-pace (recover from race), 9x800/2'57, Lon run 21mi (with 5k M at end)

wk1: 10mi (M-pace), 8x800/2'57, Lon run 18.5mi (with 5k M at end)

wk2: 8mi (M-pace), 6x800/2'57, Lon run 16mi (with 5k M at end)

wk3: 6mi (M-pace), 4x800/2'57, Lon run 14mi (5k M optional)

wk 4: 4mi (M-pace), 2x800/2'57, RACE (Bruges marathon, Belgium)

I tried to follow this guys training plan last year and responded very well to it:

highhoppingworm wrote:

Awesome race northener! Really cool to see the 5k split progression. Too bad about the sickness but didn’t seem to impact you too much. Would be curious as well to see what you have planned leading up to your target race.

Thanks! Yeah, I managed to bounce back. have some heavy training behind me, so I knew if I could just get well, then there's a good chance I could perform.

I posted my trainingin response earlier if you're interested.

Northener wrote:

To be honest I don't care if I run 2.55 or 2.59, I just want to be back sub3. It all will come down to how I feel on race day and the weather..

That is about how I am approaching it, also. It's been 20 years since I broke 3 hours, and that is the only goal for my upcoming marathon.

I haven't checked the training plan you linked, but find the 800 repeats interesting. Looks like threshold pace, very low volume I am assuming because it's the taper phase. Will definitely give it a read later. Good luck. At almost 44, I'm a few years behind you, and it sure isn't getting any easier.

Nice result in Copenhagen!

So you'll do the 14 mile run a week before the marathon? Is that too close? Nice blend of workouts, you definitely are pushing the pace a lot more than I am in training.

last chance runner wrote:

Northener wrote:

To be honest I don't care if I run 2.55 or 2.59, I just want to be back sub3. It all will come down to how I feel on race day and the weather..

That is about how I am approaching it, also. It's been 20 years since I broke 3 hours, and that is the only goal for my upcoming marathon.

I haven't checked the training plan you linked, but find the 800 repeats interesting. Looks like threshold pace, very low volume I am assuming because it's the taper phase. Will definitely give it a read later. Good luck. At almost 44, I'm a few years behind you, and it sure isn't getting any easier.

The 800s are closer to 10k speed, but it's just 800, so the effect is threshold training. This set up works quite well for me, but it's hard mentally after 5-6 wks after pretty much grinding every workout. But it gives a lot to do 20mi every week for 8-10 wks with Mpace last 20-30min..

runnerchef wrote:

Nice result in Copenhagen!

So you'll do the 14 mile run a week before the marathon? Is that too close? Nice blend of workouts, you definitely are pushing the pace a lot more than I am in training.

No problem. It depends on your training. I've done a lot of +20mi through the summer and autumn. For me it's better to do a 14mi 8m/mi run than rest.

Yeah, it's hard to stay focused for more than 8-10wks with that much quality, but the pay off has been great for me. Last year I did 1:21:23 half which is only 13s from my PR. Then I fluked the marathon due to heat and ended up with 3:05 which was really annoying. This time though!

Hi guys,looks a good thread this one so hope it keeps going.

Looking at sub 3 at Barcelona next year,got berlin next week target 3:06.

Been running for 4 years after 20 years of doing nothing,now 47 so not too long left.HM best of 1:24:03 2 weeks ago but had a 20 mile race the week before so should be beatable,shorter times all indicate sub 3 so just need more miles consistently I think.

Birkoboy wrote:

got berlin next week target 3:06.

Another middle-aged guy who's not afraid to race. 20-mile race, half marathon and marathon within a month! Good luck in Berlin.

I'll probably also race a half marathon three weeks before my upcoming marathon. Maybe a 5K in there, too. It's been 20 years since I've been this fit, so may as well enjoy it.

Was the 20-mile race also in Europe? I'm surprised at that distance, rather than 30K. 20 miles is quite unusual even here in the U.S.

last chance runner wrote:

Was the 20-mile race also in Europe? I'm surprised at that distance, rather than 30K. 20 miles is quite unusual even here in the U.S.

Yes it was in the uk,we don't have many of them but there's some just before the spring and autumn marathons.

I was really happy with it as I ran the first 18 @7:12 the managed to speed up and ran the last at 6:35 so boding well for Berlin,then Frankfurt and New York straight after.

Birkoboy wrote:

Hi guys,looks a good thread this one so hope it keeps going.

Looking at sub 3 at Barcelona next year,got berlin next week target 3:06.

Been running for 4 years after 20 years of doing nothing,now 47 so not too long left.HM best of 1:24:03 2 weeks ago but had a 20 mile race the week before so should be beatable,shorter times all indicate sub 3 so just need more miles consistently I think.

Smart that you are being conservative with your target, many would try to break 3 off of the bat!