Sub-20 5k or bust!

Hey Sprintgeezer

YAS (Yet Another Suggestion) try a 1600 TT on the track before considering a 5000 Time Trial.

Say you ran a 1600 in 6:20 not too long but long enough to know where you are at. No foaming at the mouth clutching your chest type effort just hard one.

So I did a treadmill 12x400 R 400 walking today.

Alternated

10mph 1.5 percent grade

8mph 6 percent grade

The 8mph at 6 percent grade was harder but ezr on the legs.

BTW I did a CV 5000 a week ago on the track in 20:07. Right around what you are shooting for . So maybe you should try this workout? It did not kick my butt but by 10 I was a bit tired. BTW2 I am 63.

Onward!

Another giver of +1 wrote:

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Sub-20 is not my only goal, it is sub-20 while keeping sprint speed.

I have followed some advice about long and easy. Most advice received is distance-specific, which is not my goal.

That's an interesting goal, as excellence at sprinting and distance running are at odds with one another. How do you define "keeping sprint speed"? If you can sprint 100 in 11.5 off pure sprint training would sub-20 and 100m in 12.0 mean you have kept sprint speed? Would it not be easier to train for the sub-20 if you eased back on the sprint training a bit? Cut out the weights and number of sprint sessions per week? Substitute a sprint session with a distance session? Perhaps a time trial or hard tempo run of 3000m or 3 x 1200m intervals?

Yes, good questions. If I fully dedicated to sprinting, I might be able to reach something like 11.8 now, realistically. I know what 12-seconds feels like, so I think that staying around 12.2-type feeling would be a success. That’s FAT from blocks, BTW?.

I have cut back the weights, in intensity and volume, but I still hit them 3x per week. Also, I have cut out explosive stuff, including accelerations. I think I have lost 2-3 lbs doing all of this, I haven’t weighed this little since I was 17. A bit scary how easily weight comes off. I thought I was already down at 177 (usually up around 183), so wow. I am probably 167 with no weights, which is why I look so jacked at 185 that I get roid comments occasionally. I wonder what I will go back up to once this is finished and I go back to sprint stuff.

27 seconds today, HR 156. Felt harder, for 2 possible reasons: 1) ate a tin of sardines in hot oil just before workout, and they were fighting back a bit; and 2) had effing gas from crappy organic potstickers last night. I don’t usually eat them, they are an emergency snack, along with cereal. They sure tasted good at 11pm!

Then 40 mins at 6mph, forgot to measure HR because a friend showed up. Felt easy, but right calf is tightening again a bit, have to watch it.

24 second attempt coming next. Boy the 27 seconds came soon today. Only cereal before next workout!

You know what? I might try that workout next time, just to mix it up a bit, and keep it fresh. Do you do 0.4 km as your 400m, or do you have a mill that actually measures meters? And what was your walking speed?

Do you do 0.4 km as your 400m, or do you have a mill that actually measures meters?

Timed not distance. So I wait til the mill is up to speed then run for 90 seconds at 10mph or 1:53 at 8mph

And what was your walking speed? 3.4mph

IMO altering the grade and speed is ezr on the calfs.

12.2 man that is fast makes me want to give up this chicken leg distance stuff

24 seconds, HR 140. Felt easy! Was nice and hot and humid in the room, maybe 81 degrees.

Then 40 mins at 6mph, HR unknown because HR reader malfunctioned and read 104. Also felt easy, got into a metronome groove.

I wimped out of Charlie’s workout because I thought I would be consistent and ride this train to the finish. Haven’t done it for a while because I got busy with work.

Speaking of which, I did today’s workout at lunch. Maybe I have better energy at this time of day, but I feel pretty good.

However, I broke the outsole and sole of my right shoe, at the ball of the foot. It’s cracked pretty far through, but I’m going to keep running on it until it falls off my foot.

21 seconds next, then the big psychological jump for me into the teens. I will try to run at lunch from now on.

I’m going to do a treadmill TT next time.

Feet and calves and rest of body are great, but right knee is a bit loose today.

Plus, I have lost 5 lbs already, which is a big deal for me...and my bench is down from 3 plates to 2-1/2 plates. Whoever said that my program would produce no adaptations was flat-out wrong. I know I am faster at 5k now, than I was when I started.

I have gotten leaner and denser, but I don’t want these adaptations to continue. Plus, even though I am around only 20mpw all things considered, I don’t like the feeling of a loose knee, or a tight calf, or incipient fasciitis. I feel much better doing sprint workouts. Yes, I know these issues might be related to the treadmill, but I still don’t want to lose yet another 5 lbs, etc.

In February I ran a 5K in 30:36. Late 30s, a little overweight, coming off an injury, definitely out of shape.

In September, 7 months of training later, I another 5K in 18:42.

I didn't have a plan or a coach, I just 1) slowly built up my mileage 2) lost weight 3) ran a ton, very easy.

Took about 3 months to build up to 60-70 mpw, then just held it steady there. Almost all easy, like 9:30 min/mile pace.

I'd do one track workout a week, usually 6x800m with 90s rest but I'd mix it up too. One weekend long run and one intermediate pace run, otherwise it was just about consistent high weekly mileage without getting hurt.

Diet is huge too, I lost 45 lbs total and am now down to < 5% body fat.

But I didn't hyperfocus on the details, I'd just to make sure I'd get in the miles, eat decent, do some speed work once a week and it just takes care of itself.

Good luck

45 lbs!

I have lost 5, along with the strength that goes with it, and I’m freaking out a bit because the writing is on the wall.

45 lbs!

Sprintgeezer wrote:

45 lbs!

I have lost 5, along with the strength that goes with it, and I’m freaking out a bit because the writing is on the wall.

45 lbs!

Yeah man. Kept a food diary, limited myself to 2,500 cal/day. Lost 2-3 lbs/week.

But getting better at anything just means practicing that thing a lot, and running a lot means easy miles otherwise your body breaks down.

One track workout a week is important, you can't slow-walk your way to 6 min/miles, but long runs and tempo runs are overrated, IMHO. Either build stamina (lots of slow miles) or build speed (VO2 max or lactate threshold pace). Eat right, race a couple times a month and it just happens automatically.

My race times went:

Feb - 7:38

Mar - 7:26

Apr - 7:06

Apr - 6:52

May - 6:41

Jun - 6:26

Aug - 6:03

Sep - 6:00

I stopped dropping weight and started focusing more on weekly miles for the 'thon so 5K progress has slowed but it's not a secret how to get faster. Run a lot. Lose weight. Do some speed work.

If you've only lost 5 lbs after all this training you should start swapping out a bunch of your meals for salads.

Hello,

At what time are you now?

What was the result of your last attempt ?

Greetings!

Did not do the TT because I have been insanely busy with work.

Today, 5pm workout. 21 seconds, HR156–then 40 mins at 6-7mph, HR 141.

Even though I was tired today, I had to get back on the horse—but did not feel energetic enough for a TT.

Hardly drank anything today, even though the room was nice and hot.

Intervals felt a bit harder than before, but were manageable. Probably day after tomorrow will do 18 seconds or TT, around noon or early afternoon.

The finish line is within sight. I can almost imagine running the whole 20 minutes at the interval pace. Getting close!

Hey Just, I’m not trying to go 20 minutes, I’m trying to go 20 minutes while staying more or less as I am.

I guess it is conceivable that 20% of my gain will come from improved running economy, 20% from fitness gain, and 60% from weight loss...or something like that.

I play with different running styles to see what works best and when, and to break things up to avoid injury. Has worked so far, fingers crossed.

this thread smells and sucks balls

you have been given best of advice and listen to none, you keep doing the same crap that has take you nowhere yet

either change the thread title or gtfo

Cavorty wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

Try running 1000m intervals in something comfortably under 4 minutes. Once you get to 3:20 with around 3 minutes between, you're just about there. But don't overdo any one rep, always target the pace to something that seems sustainable.

That is way faster (3:20) than you need to run 1000m intervals to break 20:00 mins. Mid-50s I would run 5 or 6 x 1000m with 2:30 recovery, and running 3:30 per rep, I ran 17:32 for 5000m on track.

Probably because you were a distance geezer and not a sprint geezer. Someone more used to putting power into their stride is gonna be more up and down in the pH department.

Even then, slower than 5k goal pace makes for a pretty easy set of 1k reps. I meant "sustainable" where you could keep going comfortably well beyond 1k, but not all the way to 5k. If you can handle a set of 3:20's without collapsing, I'd predict a sub 20, but I wouldn't be confident about 3:35's.

Of course this is a moot discussion, as SG is only likely to continue babbling about heart rates, injuries, and how running the required volume would ruin his speed. We all know what happens to 800m elites who go over 20mpw.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Probably because you were a distance geezer and not a sprint geezer. Someone more used to putting power into their stride is gonna be more up and down in the pH department.

Of course this is a moot discussion, as SG is only likely to continue babbling about heart rates, injuries, and how running the required volume would ruin his speed. We all know what happens to 800m elites who go over 20mpw.

Yes—all sprinters know that not a single one of them has any 100m capability. NOT ONE. Nor could they get it anytime soon, even if they wanted to.

I have been given much advice in how to break 20, but little advice on how to do it as I am, without going slow-twitch and losing a bunch of weight.

Speaking of which, I have happily gained back almost 3 lbs, I think just by going harder in the weightroom. Water weight no doubt, but it feels better.

pH, yes, which is why I play with different styles. One could bound an entire 5k. I consciously try to be efficient, I don’t think it is a form that comes naturally to me as far as distance is concerned. Old man shuffle yes of course, but not 10mph.

Which is one reason I enjoy watching guys like Bekele run, because I can learn from that form. I have also tried the African forward lean, the erect white guy, and the female Japanese shuffle...also the micro arm swing with long strides.

My natural distance form tends to quick turnover, which I have found is not the most efficient, especially when breathing is considered...I find that my breathing cadence tends to follow my stride cadence, and that slower breathing with a complete exhalation seems to be better for me, more efficient, better at keeping pH down.

HR —again, I only measure it on the machine when finished a set. It is not “a thing” for me, although some of you seem obsessed by it. I do not use it to inform training or effort, it is just an amusing curiosity.

Left MCL a bit strained today, helped someone schlep a bunch of rocks up some stairs yesterday. Might wait until Sunday for next treadmill session.

To those who say that I have progressed nowhere, I would ask how you know. I will say that perceived level of effort has remained the same or decreased with decreasing intervals.

hijackmf56 wrote:

this thread smells and sucks balls

you have been given best of advice and listen to none, you keep doing the same crap that has take you nowhere yet

either change the thread title or gtfo

Childish posts like that are a waste of time.

If it sucks so bad, don't read it.

I have been given little advice on how to break 20 as I am, and I have incorporated what I did get.

Nowhere? I am at or close to 20 mins for a 5k, and still faster in the 100 than you will ever be. That is not nowhere, and I would put that combination up against anybody, even those much younger than myself.

Either make worthwhile comments or gtfo

Sprintgeezer wrote:

45 lbs!

I have lost 5, along with the strength that goes with it, and I’m freaking out a bit because the writing is on the wall.

45 lbs!

you should be able to maintain strength on 5 lb decrease. Or more

I ran my 5K in 19 mins but got made fun of for wearing bun huggers. I’m a guy. I don’t see the issue