Frank Meza 2:53:10 at LA Marathon (70 years old) unofficial time (just finished)

Marathon Investigations guy:

doubler wrote:

Lots of people have reported Frank’s results to me.

I had looked at a couple of his prior races in detail (2017 LA for one) and couldn’t find anything that would lead me to conclude that he cheated. There is a photo of him off the side of the course during LA 2017, but that was well after he completed the race. I mention this because I’ve had emailers reference that as evidence, but it proves nothing.

I’m aware of CIM 2014. I agree that his DQ there merits extra scrutiny of his other results.

I do have a lot of photos and some video . I will look into everything with more scrutiny. But initially, there’s nothing that jumps out.

So, here's the offer... wrote:

...I live in NJ. I'm fairly certain I could set up a 5k on the track and get some 50-60's to pace. Maybe even get Gene up from Philly area to race. I'll pay for Dr. Meza's airfare and 2 nights lodging (he can pay for extra nights if he is worried about the time zone difference). In return, he has to run sub 19.

Letsrun could hold my "escrow" as a sign of my good faith.

Has anyone definitively nailed down whether or not Frank Meza is posting on here?

If so, I'd like him to know that once a cheater, always a cheater.

Please, just come clean and secure a shred of your dignity. I believe in you.

No opinion on this athlete,but for single age world records, the athlete must be placed in the testing pool. Was this the new 70 year old age record?

I don't know if this course was eligible, but the prior mark was 3:00?

https://arrs.run/SA_Mara.htm

Worth a shot...

frank.x.meza@kp.org

Sprintgeezer wrote:

...

The guy could easily get on the track and provide verification, if he's for real. ....

...

Look closer at the results. The recent splits are fine. It's obvious he didn't cut the course. There's a mat every 5k. How could you cheat that at 6:40 pace and still get on most of the photos? You can't. Even Doubler thinks so. He'll do fine on the track.

Florida Fan1 wrote:

I would love to see Dr Meza run a sub 19 in a single flat course 5k. Just one.

You can compare his results in this shorter race to other similarly-capable competitors’ 5k, half marathon and marathon times:

.

Forget about a 19 min five km test run legitimizing his marathon times. A 2:52 marathoner should be able to run at least a 17:40 five km test run. I'd wager $100 (Canadian, haha) that he couldn't break 20:00. Ed just informed me that he will kick in another $100 (Canadian, again).

koyaanisqatsi3 wrote:

Forget about a 19 min five km test run legitimizing his marathon times. A 2:52 marathoner should be able to run at least a 17:40 five km test run. I'd wager $100 (Canadian, haha) that he couldn't break 20:00. Ed just informed me that he will kick in another $100 (Canadian, again).

It’s always possible that you are correct ... or not. No real evidence has been posted other than one DQ out of many races. If you look at the results of the race I just posted, you will see numerous runners within 1 minute of his finishing time with 5k PRs of under 18 minutes. Apparently, you must be claiming that he cheated in this relay race as well. Maybe he did.

$100 doesn’t mean anything. If you’re so sure, maybe you can commit to $5,000 towards his running club if he breaks 19 minutes. I’d prefer to wait for real evidence one way or the other before proclaiming guilt.

Lip Kitten wrote:

Fair wrote:

Thank you for the succinct explanation.

Too bad that Cal. International and/or BroJos won't help investigate.

Hate to see old guys get cheated like this. Who'll be the next Ed Whitlock? If shady stuff like this continues, many running record books integrity will be at stake...

Gene Dykes is already the next Ed Whitlock.

+1

And most of Gene's training and racing is on Strava. None of it looks suspicious.

Just from my half marathon experience. Truthfully, these splits times are extremely questionable. (if accurate) Even impossible. After watching the 2018 web cam LA marathon, I must say that was not what I expected Frank to run like. He looked slow around a bunch of slow goofy looking and not too serious runners. It made no sense whatsoever for 2:56 marathoners. Frank did finish 103rd in this race. Who are all these runners. The clothes thing and bib looked very suspect. Who finishes a race this way. Adding seconds to the time. Are you allowed in a marathon like this to have a friend give you extra clothing during the race if you get cold? Maybe he took it off to make sure his finish picture would get taken. It hit me that if Frank is working with an accomplice, they would need to switch fast, as in a bib on a removable belt. It looked like he is caught in the act on this video. Would need to blow it up to see better. This would have been very bold. You could actually look at Frank's gun times and find someone who also crossed a mat at the same gun time and see if someone else is running nearby with his bib, (not likely) or no bib. Especially if it happened at two or more spots. My guess is the accomplice would be running most of the race. Yes I am playing devil's advocate. But this is a search for the truth. And, I agree you do not break world record times and not expect to have some attention. (and scrutiny)

RP, I've run the chinatown firecracker race that you linked for Mr Meza's 10K result. Just fyi, in case you've never run in, that is a SLOOOOOW course. I'd say it runs at least 1:30 slow for a 30min guy, and upwards of 2:00-2:30 slow for a 40min guy.

point is, your best performance is NOT going to come at that race, period. I have been fifty-fifty about whether I lean one way or the other... but, having done that chinatown race, the fact that he has his one supportive performance on THAT course is troubling- as is a host of other evidence in this thread. Real bummer because I wanted to be encouraged that it's possible to run like Ed W as we get older...

I'm sure Bekele will be able to run about sub 2:40 when he is 70.

0-5k: 6:27 /mi 20:02 5-10K: 6:31 /mi 20:17 10-15K: 6:37 /mi 20.33 15-20K: 6:52 /mi 21:21 20-25K 6:27 /mi 20:02 25-30K 6:53 /mi 21:23 30-35K 6:40 /mi 20:44 35-40K 6:22 /mi 19:47 Are you saying these splits are fine? My first instinct was to say they are. But I'm not sure. He hit a bad patch and recovered and picked up the pace, then hit another bad patch but recovered and finished strong? I don't think we can eyeball this and say it's legit. You need someone to plot these splits against a suitable selection of people running around the same time in the same race to see if variability like this is ordinary. Maybe it is. I don't know. You are right, though, that the logistics of faking these are also incomprehensible. Did Frank run the first 20k, get in some photos, pass off the bib, then get it back again around 30k? That seems unlikely. Did he ride a bike between mats? That seems ludicrous. I honestly have no idea what to think.

Splits Are Fine wrote:

Look closer at the results. The recent splits are fine. It's obvious he didn't cut the course. There's a mat every 5k. How could you cheat that at 6:40 pace and still get on most of the photos? You can't. Even Doubler thinks so. He'll do fine on the track.

Florida Fan1 wrote:

X-trapolate wrote:

Extrapolating.

The rule of thumb for people running marathons in the TWO hour range is that half marathon pace is about 14 seconds faster per mile than marathon pace.

Since the 1/2 WR is 58:18 than means any marathon time faster than 2:02:42 is suspect.

Nice deflection.

I guess that I didn't make my point clear.

My point wasn't that a human being can't run a marathon faster than their predicted time based on a half marathon, my point was that someone trying to run a fast time for them (or in this case an age group record) would not speed up and slow down like this. In fact, when most people run a slow split in a marathon, the next split is even slower and the next one even slower (ans so on) . . .

To the general public (and people like the Marathon Investigation guy), reading that someone had splits in the 6:50s and then sped up into the 6:20s does not seem out of the realm of possibility. However, these are different physiological zones (this was the reason for my comment about what half marathon pace and marathon pace feel like). It reminds me of an infamous cheater's favorite workout -- 5 Miles at 5K pace.

Here is the course elevation profile. The fast finish makes sense with the two mile downhill.

Interesting. The steep downhill to mile 15 would correspond to the 20-25k fast split?

Doesn’t mean it was him running it. But the splits themselves maybe aren’t that unusual.

This years LA Marathon splits are actually still very suspect. (way too fast for the first 15k of a 2:53:10 - 60:52 after giving up many seconds by starting 48 seconds back -- as though anyone planning on beating the own worlds fastest over 70 marathon would start that far back -- they would start as close as they could get to the start without getting run over) The questions are many, and the possible answers are many. The 37 minute 10k splits are obviously not something Frank could do. Any bib transfer would have involved a faster runner than Frank. I mentioned on an earlier post, a runner who ran 2:52:27. (Ali Arsan) He gets most improved as he ran over 4 hours the year before. He beat Frank, but because he started 1:14 after the gun went off..he finished 18 seconds behind frank by clock time. He missed the 10k 20k 25k and 40k mats. Could be coincidence, or could be not a coincidence. He also smiles way too much in his many photos. (just my opinion) We are searching for possible answers to prove Frank Meza to be the best 70 plus marathoner ever or not. I could run with him a few times and I would know the answer. (or maybe not) Ed Whitlock, remember mainly ran 20 mile runs through a cemetary. I do not know if Ed varied his pace. But he had the endurance. This is my 2 cents worth. (maybe 1 cent) I'm going on a few miles easy run. (doing a 10k Sat in Seal Beach Ca.- come join me , if your a fast 60-64 come beat me, I'll run maybe 42)