NY Times Article on Nike Oregon Project implicates Ritz and Farah

With what exactly could the USADA charge Ritz and Welling?Also, would someone please explain how what we know Ritz and Welling have done (not what anyone might speculate they might have done) has illicitly and most likely (or even possibly) aided their performances in races years ago?Finally, isn't the big news what's not in the article--namely, no mention of EPO or Testosterone or PEDs generally?

Mr. Obvious wrote:

At this point, I believe they likely could charge Salazar with using a prohibited method.

They could also charge Dr. Brown as an Athlete Support Personnel.

They could also likely charge Ritzenheim, Welling, and other cooperating witnesses. These would all be in line for reduced suspension times, but they would still likely be suspended.

I am sure that their intent is to charge other athletes (Rupp, Farah, Centro, maybe others) and they do not appear to have enough evidence to do that.

Hence, why they are trying to leverage the Texas Medical Board.

OK, being a humble phel...fleb...person who puts IV lines in people, I don't know the limits on the law-enforcement capabilities of USADA. Are they licensed to actually arrest people, or can they compel local authorities to do this? Supposedly the FBI was involved with this whole mess, but that has yet to come to fruition (as far as any of us knows).

What I'm asking is, could an actual arrest of Salazar (and perhaps others) be the next r-- or really, first -- genuine move in this drama, or will such a move just involve a lot of paper-flinging and public mumbling? Could this be the reason why this is all taking so long -- they want their first act to be emphatic, airtight, and definitive?

Welling lied under oath and admitted it subsequently under oath, having first denied the infusion took place and then admitted knowing about it.

Ritz was told everything was above board.

Brown changed medical records--the removal of information of the actual infusion of Ritz and then subbing in an implausibly low 45 ml.

Oral is said to be not beneficial for exercise. It is also taken for fatigue.

Below it indicates that people have drunk 2-15 grams of Carnitine dissolved in 200-250 millileters of water, plus lemon juice/food. More to the point, they describe one gram of carnitine dissolved in 20 milliliters of 0.9% saline solution 3xweek/12 weeks. That would presumably convert to 10 grams of carnitine dissolved in 200 milliliters of saline solution, or almost 4x the daily limit of 50 ml. So, if Ritz was given close to ten grams, then it is highly unlikely that he was below the daily limit, which would be the gray zone limit.

They also mention 20 mg./kilo injected for eight weeks.

From some site called living naturally:

"For exercise performance, 1-6 grams of L-carnitine has been taken by mouth daily for up to 30 days, with lack of evidence of benefit. A dose of 2 grams of carnitine has been taken by mouth daily in two divided doses for six weeks. Supplement capsules containing 746 milligrams of carnitine (L-Carnipure®) have been taken by mouth up to twice daily during meals for up to 23 days. The following one-time doses have been taken by mouth: 2 grams of carnitine; 2-15 grams of carnitine dissolved in 200-250 milliliters of water, plus six drops of lemon juice or food; and 40 milligrams per kilogram of carnitine capsules. One gram of carnitine, dissolved in 20 milliliters of 0.9 percent saline, has been injected into the vein three times weekly for 12 weeks. A dose of 20 milligrams per kilogram of carnitine has been injected into the vein for eight weeks.

For fatigue, L-carnitine syrup 0.5 grams has been taken by mouth daily and increased over four days to 1 gram twice daily for 10 days. A dose of 1,000 milligrams of L-carnitine has been taken by mouth daily in two divided doses for one week, without evidence of benefit.

For fatigue (cancer), doses of 500-6,000 milligrams of carnitine have been taken by mouth daily for 1-4 weeks. Doses of 250-3,000 milligrams of L-carnitine have been taken by mouth twice daily for one week

For fatigue (celiac), 1 gram of L-carnitine has been taken by mouth twice daily for 180 days."

Montesquieu wrote:

With what exactly could the USADA charge Ritz and Welling?

Doping (IV > 50 ml within 6 hours) in 2011. Two year retroactive ban.

[quote]Montesquieu wrote:

Finally, isn't the big news what's not in the article--namely, no mention of EPO or Testosterone or PEDs generally?[quote]

You trolls crack me up. You know exactly that testo is in the article.

Montesquieu wrote:

With what exactly could the USADA charge Ritz and Welling?

Also, would someone please explain how what we know Ritz and Welling have done (not what anyone might speculate they might have done) has illicitly and most likely (or even possibly) aided their performances in races years ago?

Finally, isn't the big news what's not in the article--namely, no mention of EPO or Testosterone or PEDs generally?

Use of a prohibited method. Infusion of more than 50ml of saline in a 4 hr. period.

How do we know that? Well, presumably from Ritz' version of his medical records. I'm not 100% sure about Welling, but possibly the same thing. It necessarily involves some speculation, which is why I would really, really like to see the complete document not a reporter's brief summary.

Doesn't matter if they knew or not--strict liability. Doesn't matter if it actually aided their performances or not, it was a prohibited method.

I'll leave it to others to decide what the big news is.

Vinny Ponckshrist wrote:

OK, being a humble phel...fleb...person who puts IV lines in people, I don't know the limits on the law-enforcement capabilities of USADA. Are they licensed to actually arrest people, or can they compel local authorities to do this? Supposedly the FBI was involved with this whole mess, but that has yet to come to fruition (as far as any of us knows).

What I'm asking is, could an actual arrest of Salazar (and perhaps others) be the next r-- or really, first -- genuine move in this drama, or will such a move just involve a lot of paper-flinging and public mumbling? Could this be the reason why this is all taking so long -- they want their first act to be emphatic, airtight, and definitive?

USADA has absolutely no law enforcement capabilities. They cannot arrest them. They cannot charge them with crimes. They cannot compel testimony. They cannot compel release of medical records.

In the past USADA has tried, with some success, to leverage law enforcement or civil legal resources, notably in the case of BALCO and in the Armstrong investigation. It appears to me they are trying this again, but I could only speculate on whether they would have any success (my speculation is that it does not appear likely).

Mr. Obvious wrote:

What I'm asking is, could an actual arrest of Salazar (and perhaps others) be the next r-- or really, first -- genuine move in this drama, or will such a move just involve a lot of paper-flinging and public mumbling? Could this be the reason why this is all taking so long -- they want their first act to be emphatic, airtight, and definitive?

[/quote]

The USADA/WADA can ban them. Obstruction of determining whether the complied with the code is sufficient. In other words: throwing attorneys at the USADA will not prevent someone from being banned.

They Can . . . wrote:

The USADA/WADA can ban them. Obstruction of determining whether the complied with the code is sufficient. In other words: throwing attorneys at the USADA will not prevent someone from being banned.

I see absolutely no way that USADA could ban somebody for "obstruction." If they tried it I really, really doubt that it would hold up to an appeal to CAS.

The requirements for athletes to cooperate with USADA/WADA are really limited to taking the required tests.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

I see absolutely no way that USADA could ban somebody for "obstruction." If they tried it I really, really doubt that it would hold up to an appeal to CAS.

The requirements for athletes to cooperate with USADA/WADA are really limited to taking the required tests.

You are right. USADA can't ban somebody directly for obstructing an investigation. But they could ban someone whose their obstructive behavior violated some specific clause of the WADA Code. For example, under 2.9 of the WADA Code ("Complicity"), "covering up...an anti-doping rule violation," is itself an "anti-doping rule violation." Refusing to voluntarily cooperate with investigators probably does not count as covering up, but lying when you do talk to them, or submitting falsified medical records, probably does count.

Of course, "covering up" is not always straightforward. Take Welling lying about her infusion. From the press reports, it's not clear she knew the infusions were suspicious. If "covering up" means that someone intentionally hid a doping violation, that she thought they were legal might means she's not guilty. That it's been two years and she still hasn't been sanctioned suggests she might be in the clear.

It'd be nice to know when, and under what conditions, Ritz & Welling talked to the USADA investigators. I take it they talked after they left Nike. From the article, it appears Ritz testified under oath.

I agree fully with your broader point that the lack of action here suggestions the investigation is stalled. This report is a year old. One assumes that if there was more there, there, Fancybears would have released it.

Given your comments, I'm guessing this stuff is undetectable by any urine or blood test--is that right?

Setting aside that "strict liability" is a standard of civil adjudication--if you carry hazardous products in your truck you can be held liable irrespective of of negligence or recklessness--I suspect that is not at all like the standard that WADA uses. There must be some imputation of actual fault.

I don't think you can blood or urine test somebody and detect how much saline they had over a given time period.

I confess that I am not particularly confident in my knowledge of the scope and limitations of testing.

Coach Alberto Salazar needs to be STOPPED.

Ritz:

In June 2010, after an unproductive season of injury, Ritzenhein and Salazar’s conversations moved from supplements to “synthetic thyroid,” Ritzenhein testified, saying it was “to help with low testosterone levels.”

Blood work performed at Nike’s lab showed that Ritzenhein’s thyroid-stimulating hormone and his testosterone levels were both within the normal range. Regardless, Salazar sent him to see Dr. Jeffrey Stuart Brown, an endocrinologist who is known for his belief that synthetic thyroid medication enhances athletic performance.

Dathan's blood tests at the NIKE lab showed that Dathan did not have a medical need for prescription Thyroid hormone to treat hypothyroidism. It was "to help with low testosterone levels" (which were also within normal range and not at low levels)…and to improve athletic performance.

Dr. Brown is used by Alberto Salazar for thyroid prescriptions for his NOP athletes and for the L-carnitine IV infusions. In another excerpt from this leaked report, Alberto emails Galen and tells Galen to double his dose of Levoxyl (T4) and tells Galen that he can drive over some prescription cytomel (T3)…because it looks like Alberto has his own cytomel prescription. Alberto's cytomel prescription may have also come from Dr. Brown.

Alberto Salazar is not a doctor or a pharmacy and should not be distributing a prescription thyroid hormone drug to any other people…or changing their dose.

Alberto Salazar also has a prescription for the schedule III controlled substance and prescription drug Androgel (1% testosterone gel)…which is reported to be from a doctor in Oregon…and not from Dr. Brown in Texas. Alberto did 'Androgel sabotage experiments' on his 2 sons in which he administered his prescription for Androgel to his 2 sons.

The two experimental subjects did not have a prescription for the controlled substance Androgel. Alberto did testing to see if different doses of Androgel could trigger a positive T/E ratio of over 4:1 on a doping test. Dr. Brown consulted with Alberto on these 'experiments'…which broke various federal and state drug laws when the experiments were done…because Alberto administered a schedule III controlled substance and prescription drug to two people with no prescription from a doctor for that schedule III controlled substance and prescription drug (Androgel).

https://www.drugs.com/pro/androgel.html

Magness said in a recent interview that he was not aware at the time that the treatment would be more than 50 milliliters and a violation of doping rules. “Both Dr. Brown and Alberto told me it was good with Usada and I mistakenly trusted them,” he said.

Conclusion:

1) Alberto Salazar and Dr. Brown LIED to Steve Magness. The 4 hour and 10 minute IV infusion of over 1000mL was not cleared with USADA.

After learning about the procedure, however, Ritzenhein said to Salazar: “Is this legal? This doesn’t sound legal.”

"In an email message obtained by antidoping officials, Salazar then appeared to mislead Ritzenhein: “Hi Dathan, we are cutting edge but we take no chances on a screw up. Everything is above board and cleared thru Usada. They know me very well because I always get an okay before doing anything!”

"In its report, the antidoping agency said, “Salazar’s statement about always getting clearance with Usada ‘before doing anything’ is both ironic and inaccurate.”

Conclusion:

2) Alberto Salazar LIED to Dathan Ritzenhein about getting clearance with USADA for an IV L-carnitine infusion of 9.67 grams of L-carnitine from Dr. Brown…which would be over 200 mL...in 1 hour and 10 minutes.

"Dr. Brown provided antidoping officials with Ritzenhein’s medical records, but the report says the version he sent was altered. A page was removed and an added annotation read “45mL.” Antidoping officials said they were able to determine the alteration by comparing the records with those provided by Ritzenhein.

"Antidoping officials suggest that administering an infusion of less than 50 milliliters “continuously and uniformly over a one hour period is a practical impossibility and Dr. Brown knew this,” concluding that Ritzenhein “received 9.67 grams of L-carnitine over 1 hour, which demonstrates that Ritzenhein likely received an infusion far in excess of 50 mL.”

Tara Welling:

"Regarding the L-carnitine infusion, however, she said she could not remember a single detail.

When pressed about the infusion during her interview with the agency, Welling began crying. “I don’t know if Alberto did something to me,” she said.

Conclusion:

3) Oh boy.

Dr. Brown left crucial information out of Magness’s medical records, the report said, including the quantities of L-carnitine that he infused.

That is an interesting surprise.

Dr. Chakraverty also left out the exact same crucial information in the medical records of Mo Farah. He left out the information about Mo Farah's L-carnitine IV infusion just before the 2014 London Marathon.

However, Dr. Chakraverty has a very good memory.

He can remember that he gave an IV L-carnitine infusion...of only 13.5 mL to Mo Farah.

Dr. Chakraverty also has a very bad memory.

He did not remember to record the amount of the IV L-carnitine infusion he administered to Mo Farah just before the 2014 London marathon in the medical records. Dr. Chakraverty received the protocol for the IV infusion from Alberto Salazar.

Conclusion:

4) Dr. Chakraverty has a very good memory... and a very bad memory...at the same time.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/39627807

It is just a coincidence.

I don't know either, but I suspect not. Let's suppose it isn't detectable. How many guys do you think are currently using L-c--in either recommended doses or high volume? Are the Kenyans using it? The Ethiopians? Eastern Europeans?

Mr. Obvious wrote:

I don't think you can blood or urine test somebody and detect how much saline they had over a given time period.

I confess that I am not particularly confident in my knowledge of the scope and limitations of testing.

Thanks for pointing me to that, I'll have to look at that section of the code.

Frankly I would be shocked if "covering up" was straightforward. The WADA code is really pretty weak and vague when it comes to anything besides positive tests, although it has gotten a little clearer than previous iterations.

Welling may or may not be guilty of covering up, but she would still be guilty of using a prohibited method.

I would also like to know about the conditions of them talking to USADA.

I don't know if the investigation is stalled. Investigations can take a long time. I think this particular attempt to leverage the Texas Medical Board is likely stalled.

Montesquieu wrote:

Setting aside that "strict liability" is a standard of civil adjudication--if you carry hazardous products in your truck you can be held liable irrespective of of negligence or recklessness--I suspect that is not at all like the standard that WADA uses. There must be some imputation of actual fault.

I'm not sure I understand your point about civil adjudication. Perhaps you can tell me what you mean by that? USADA/WADA hearings are not either criminal or civil adjudications. They are arbitrations although they may borrow elements or language sometimes used in other legal contexts.

What is meant by "strict liability" is what is set out in the WADA code. It simply means that it is not necessary to establish intentional or knowing use by the athlete to find a violation. The term strict liability comes from CAS decisions, not the words of the code itself, although the notes in the code do contain this term. I've copied the relevant text from the code at the bottom of my post.

It is relevant that penalties have been mitigated (but not totally eliminated as far as I know) for quite a few situations, notably LeShawn Meritt, Shawn Barber, I think some females using fertility drugs in an attempt to get pregnant, some claims of tainted supplements.

I think Ritz and Welling might be eligible for mitigation of penalties on two counts: not knowing it was illegal and also for cooperating. That could cut a penalty to 6 months instead of two years, I think. I confess I am relying on the Armstrong precendents and my memory of those.

2.1 Presence of a Prohibited Substance or its

Metabolites or Markers in an Athlete’s Sample

2.1.1 It is each Athlete’s personal duty to ensure

that no Prohibited Substance enters his or

her body. Athletes are responsible for any

Prohibited Substance or its Metabolites or

Markers found to be present in their Samples.

Accordingly, it is not necessary that intent, Fault,

negligence or knowing Use on the Athlete’s

part be demonstrated in order to establish an

anti-doping rule violation under Article 2.1.

[Comment to Article 2.1.1: An

anti-doping rule violation is committed

under this Article without regard to

an Athlete’s Fault. This rule has been

referred to in various CAS decisions as

“Strict Liability”. An Athlete’s Fault is

taken into consideration in determi

Montesquieu wrote:

I don't know either, but I suspect not. Let's suppose it isn't detectable. How many guys do you think are currently using L-c--in either recommended doses or high volume? Are the Kenyans using it? The Ethiopians? Eastern Europeans?

I have no earthly idea. I'm also not sure what the relevance is of that?

rjm33 wrote:

Conclusion:

2) Alberto Salazar LIED to Dathan Ritzenhein about getting clearance with USADA for an IV L-carnitine infusion of 9.67 grams of L-carnitine from Dr. Brown…which would be over 200 mL...in 1 hour and 10 minutes.

Is the 50ml IV infusion that is acceptable by USDA the TOTAL fluids given or the medication limit? B/c 50ml is not much. 9.67grams in 200ml of NS would be like a piggy back med and very concentrated therefore would be followed by 1liter of NS @ a wide open line which could infuse in that time frame.

I would be curious who started the IV, mixed the solution and administered the med. Maybe they be the person to talk to?

As for the poster who asked about how to test urine for normal saline, you can't it's just plain fluids, now if there is a test to detect L-carnitine in urine or blood then yes that would make sense. But if you want more specific as to how much fluid someone was getting, you would have to calculate their fluid intake and output for that day.

Darrington wrote:

rojo wrote:

I've never understood this logic? Can someone tell me why it's better to be a silent coward than to publicly state how you feel.

I guess I should know as given the fact that at least 25% of LRC hates me - it's clear 1/4th of the population will hate you if they know you are .

Yeah except what did Kara's public statements really accomplish? It looked more like sour grapes than anything after her relationship with Salazar clearly went South​ and her career was mostly over. Dathan could have come forward, yes, but I don't think Kara is the hero you are making her out to be.

No but she sure will be when Salazar goes down. It may take 10 years or more but it's just like Armstrong - everyone who spoke out against him was sour grapes or someone trying to retaliate against him and it took awhile but eventually the truth came out. I'm just surprised they haven't found the Nike connection yet.