Cam Levins is my new favorite runner

Merga is definitely a blue collar worker.

Geb is blue collar. Except when he runs his business. But when he runs he is definately hard stinkin work.

Why all the race frenzied people!!!!!

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There each "a" represents a stupid comment about race. Really go back and read every post and count them up!

asdfasdfa wrote:

You missed the point that Cam has already had success due to his hard work. Assuming he is a top thirty runner based on his talent and regular training, he has far exceeded that by hard work.

So dreams can come true through hard work, but not everyone is dreaming to become the world record holder.

Well there ya go. If your dream is to come in fourth you can run 155 mpw and accomplish said dream.

But if your dream is to win, well, better start accepting the facts. If you have to do 155 mpw just to finish fourth, you're probably not going to be able to win against a decent/elite field. Ever.

But you 'dreamers' keep trotting out this crap about 'hard work can get you success'. It's so delusional of you all.

Top 4 in NCAAs isn't success? Interesting. Maybe in track only the top 3 will race, or just Lalang.

So how many miles were you doing when finished better than fourth at NCAAs?

gotta say it wrote:

Well there ya go. If your dream is to come in fourth you can run 155 mpw and accomplish said dream.

But if your dream is to win, well, better start accepting the facts. If you have to do 155 mpw just to finish fourth, you're probably not going to be able to win against a decent/elite field. Ever.

But you 'dreamers' keep trotting out this crap about 'hard work can get you success'. It's so delusional of you all.

I gotta say it....you are terribly annoying and ignorant. 4th at NCAA is not the be all and end all of Cam's running career, I'm sure of that. I will capitalize these again: HE IS 22. THIS IS THE EARLY CAREER. He did not do 155 mile weeks "in order to finish 4th at NCAA". Since when does what someone does at 22 when they are clearly on the upswing represent the limit of their success? Geez, you MUST be trolling.

People were probably saying that about Josh McDougal too.

Skuj. Bookmark this thread and please bring it up when Cam makes that jump to the next level. I'm in your camp and think Cam is a huge prospect with a very exciting future. Nice to see a kid willing to put in that kind of work. Hate how taboo mileage has become for Western runners.

HRE wrote:

So how many miles were you doing when finished better than fourth at NCAAs?

Don't worry about me.

Just ask Lalang.

Poster Formerly Known asGoober wrote:

Skuj. Bookmark this thread and please bring it up when Cam makes that jump to the next level. I'm in your camp and think Cam is a huge prospect with a very exciting future. Nice to see a kid willing to put in that kind of work. Hate how taboo mileage has become for Western runners.

Yes, do that.

And be sure to bump it when if and when he doesn't, as well, so we can once again go over the delusion of the average poster on this thread who thinks that hard work alone can and will equal success.

Mileage is impressive but let's not forget the courage he showed in following Lalang on the breakaway. I am a fan of smart pacing, but the kid showed The Balls with that and hung on for fourth.

Skuj wrote:

I gotta say it....you are terribly annoying and ignorant. 4th at NCAA is not the be all and end all of Cam's running career, I'm sure of that. I will capitalize these again: HE IS 22. THIS IS THE EARLY CAREER. He did not do 155 mile weeks "in order to finish 4th at NCAA". Since when does what someone does at 22 when they are clearly on the upswing represent the limit of their success? Geez, you MUST be trolling.

You're the one that can't comprehend a simple premise that I've pointedly and REPEATEDLY stated, and yet I'm the one that's ignorant?

Perhaps you should spend some time learning what the terms 'ignorant' and 'stupid' are, and then sit down and make a list of your own stellar attributes.

You think he didn't do 155 mpw to get 4th at nats. Great. So you think this will prepare him for loads of 'success' down the road, huh? And yet, when we look at all the current elites, which ones were doing similar amounts of volume to achieve similar results?

Take a second to really digest that before spewing forth more venomous drivel, okay slick?

Anyway, I'll wait for this thread bump that'll never come with bated breath, that's for sure.

The rest of you guys keep your head in the clouds. Reality here on Earth might be too harsh for you.

gotta say it wrote:

You think he didn't do 155 mpw to get 4th at nats. Great. So you think this will prepare him for loads of 'success' down the road, huh? And yet, when we look at all the current elites, which ones were doing similar amounts of volume to achieve similar results?

Look at all the Kenyan marathoners that run huge mileage. Lel. Kiprono Cheruiyot. Kibet. Mutai's. These guys are running 155-180/week in training. And before they were 2:05 or better guys they were well not that fast. Duncan Kibet debuted at like 2:18 or something and he was always a huge mileage baller. I would bet huge money Cam could run a sub 2:18 off a marathon prep right now. Hope I don't get flamed for being antiracist and giving Kenyans cred.

Lalang's not posting here. You give the impression you've done better than Levins on fewer miles so I'd like to know if that's true.

Skuj knows Levins better than anyone else on this thread - period. I won't go into why (that's up to them to divulge).

Compared to where Coolsaet was at this time in his career, Levins is way farther ahead - and Coolsaet didn't have an auspicious HS career either. Is 155mpw a lot, yes (Mo Ahmed was running 100mpw in his base, and he placed 5th). Is is advisable if he plans to get to the same level as Sullivan or Hood at 1500m? Doubtful. But it lays a "Kenyan" base (Lalang and Lagat excepted) to run faster over longer distances far earlier than he might otherwise have done.

The axiom I have always understood (from Ron Clarke/Derek Clayton) is that bigger runners have to do more miles (see even Peter Snell) to compensate for their size, and even moreso if they aren't particularly fast (natural leg-speed without having to spend inordinate amounts of time developing a capacity for speed). Whether they can handle the work without breaking down and can run relatively fast without having to resort to constant tapering, is part of the "secret". As DeCastella says, it's about absorbing the training. Jerome Drayton ran up to 175mpw (according to him), and ran his 2h12 relatively early at 24yo. If Levins is going to the marathon early in his career (not waiting until late 20's anyway), then this is good preparation, and so he is training "through" his NCAA career. This doesn't mean that he will get to a 2h03 level, as the more successful Africans tend to be light AND doing high mileage, and may simply be naturally faster anyway (although not everyone has the speed of a Geb.).

Time will decide if this was the best course of development for Levins, but good for him for actually taking the bull by the horns and getting on with it. Too many runners wait so long to get in this type of training that they never get to the level that they might prefer before "life", and lack of money, gets in the way.

His options were the following:

1. Run 100 mpw and get 40th

2. Run "155+" (160-175 in reality)and get 4th

He picked 4th and put in the work, end of story.

Also, you better believe he would have placed 2nd if he followed Derrick the whole way but now he doesn't have to be haunted by the question, "what if?" for the rest of his life.

Agreed. One thing though: Drayton ran 2:10.

Who says these were his only 2 options? Perhpas he could have done 100 miles a week at greater intensity than he he did his 155. Perhaps he could have done 125 at greater intensity than he did his 155. Why wouldn't he be haunted? When Chelanga got outkicked by Rupp he was crucified on here for not running a smart race. How come no one is taking Levins to task for not running a smarter race? Levins is courageous but Chelanga was foolhardy?

Levins gave himself the best possible chance to win. Chelanga did not. Simple really.