Ritz breaks US 10 mile record...in a workout.

Nathan Ditz wrote:

What about his 8:11 2 mile? That's what convinced me at the time that he could break 13. The only thing that surprised me about the 12:56 was the timing of it. The potential was always there.

Sorry, but no, that does not indicate Ritz can run 12:56 off several weeks of 5K training

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It takes many years and SPECIFIC 5K Training for the likes of Mottram, Kennedy and even Teg to run 12.5X and all show gradual progress throughout the years. We now have someone who are running 5K in 13.16 - 13.25 range consistently for several years AND only train for the 5K for what, 4 weeks and then pop a 12:56? This must translate that Ritz is much more talented than all those 5K specialist that I mentioned above or, some super coach just found a secret training formula that with marathon aerobic base training, add several weeks of super fast speed training, you suddenly become one of the best 5K in the world.

When Ramzi made the leap, everyone started to suspect his performance, precisely because there was nothing that indicate he can run that fast, and in such short period of time.

This is why Ritz's performance of late is so "interesting"..... He is going to break AR HM in England.

Toronto wrote:

Nathan Ditz wrote:

What about his 8:11 2 mile? That's what convinced me at the time that he could break 13...

Sorry, but no, that does not indicate Ritz can run 12:56 off several weeks of 5K training

It takes many years and SPECIFIC 5K Training...

I think 'Nathan Ditz' is saying Ritz' 8:11 indicated he'd put in many years. No one's saying Ritz didn't need many years, so who are you arguing against?

Montesquieu wrote:

Do you usually go around calling people you don't know vulgar names? Sad, really. In any case, and try to think this through very carefully, there are many reasons why someone might be skeptical about a fast time. In Hall's case, no one to the best of my recollection said anything about PEDs. Instead, many people said the course must be short or that Hall did not run the full course. Hence, they were skeptical about the time.

Hall gets a free pass on the issue of drugs.

Years of coaching wrote:

I don't understand. How has Ritzenhein found this new level of fitness?

Why couldn't he do these work outs under Brad?

That's easy. The faster intervals he started doing in Portland improved his efficiency mightily, and now he's reaping the benefits at all paces.

ttc wrote:

I think 'Nathan Ditz' is saying Ritz' 8:11 indicated he'd put in many years. No one's saying Ritz didn't need many years, so who are you arguing against?

Does 8:11 3k translate to 12:56 5K?

I am not arguing with anyone. But I like to lay out logic. Logic and other world class runners's past performances and their progression curves suggest that Ritz has invented a new way of training that makes him run so much faster in such a short period of time. There are no prior examples that I can think of that show the kind of improvement that Ritz has shown.

I know for a fact that Ritz did not run anything on the track faster than 60 for 400 in preparation for the 8:11. Also, Ritz's 8:11 is the fourth fastest ever by an American, behind only Teg, Kennedy, and Webb.

Toronto wrote:

ttc wrote:

I think 'Nathan Ditz' is saying Ritz' 8:11 indicated he'd put in many years. No one's saying Ritz didn't need many years, so who are you arguing against?

Does 8:11 3k translate to 12:56 5K?

I am not arguing with anyone. But I like to lay out logic. Logic and other world class runners's past performances and their progression curves suggest that Ritz has invented a new way of training that makes him run so much faster in such a short period of time. There are no prior examples that I can think of that show the kind of improvement that Ritz has shown.

Teg went from 13:25 to 13:04 in one year... does that mean he is on drugs? The only difference is Teg had a 13:15 in between those performances, which is only a second or two faster than Dathan's PR before the 12:56.

A super secret formula using marathon-style base training, followed by a relatively short sharpening period used to bring your season to a peak.... If only there was some coach that had come up with an idea that running high volumes of intense aerobic work would lead to long term improvements in mid-distance events.... I can't think of anyone who has EVER stated that that might work. This is so unprecedented!

He wasn't "always injured." He had some good years early in his pro career. I recall 2-3 years where he doubled at XC nationals and was US 5000m champ. He did subsequently get injured and then for whatever reason wouldn't to PT and supplemental work on his own under Wetmore. It took moving to Portland and Salazar being willing to hold his hand about nutrition and supplemental work to get him to act in his own best interest.

Montesquieu wrote:

Goucher won NCAA XC and was thought to be very talented but always injured. The same was thought of Begley, who won the NCAA 10000. What Salazar managed is to keep them healthy so the workouts could have some effect.

Tirty Tree wrote:

How about K. Goucher and Begley making improbable improvements once they got on the Viagra/albuterol/etc. cocktail. Their improvements weren't as shocking as Ritzenhein's because they're not world-class talents. All of a sudden going from above-average domestic runners to being in the mix at the world level is pretty curious. Ritzenhein clearly has the genetic goods, he looks like a world-class athlete. Goucher and Begley are built like the Russians.

umm.....ever heard of Lydiard? wrote:

A super secret formula using marathon-style base training, followed by a relatively short sharpening period used to bring your season to a peak.... If only there was some coach that had come up with an idea that running high volumes of intense aerobic work would lead to long term improvements in mid-distance events.... I can't think of anyone who has EVER stated that that might work. This is so unprecedented!

Maybe THAT is the point. If, as you suggest, such training ideas have been around forever, and, if, as Lydiard fans suggest, almost every top runner is influenced by Lydiard ideas, THEN...... Ritz has done nothing unique in training. SO..... then why the "unique" jump in performance for him???

BUMP...

what a classic thread. 10 pages of an argument of how accurate this run was and no update after he ran 60.00 and won a bronze!

Fast forward 4 years later, wonder if he has done this run in past four years and even come close to 45:03

Nice

I am inclined to believe it is legit. People seem to forget how good Ritz is when he is healthy and fit; e.g., Jr World XC, 5000AR, World Half Marathon, etc. Except for the Half and Marathon, all of the American road records are relative soft compared to the track times.