A 2:07 guy should also be suited to run faster than 28:21 and 13:47. Sorry, but these things don't add up. Look at the damn list of people he's now next to. Most of them ran those times in super shoes. Stop just saying things.
Some of you just aren’t very bright. There have always been outliers in this area. Beardsley probably couldn’t run faster than 13:47 and 28:21 and he would be running 2:06 or 2:07 in super shoes. Benji Durden is another example of a guy who probably would have similar 5 and 10 times but today would be a 2:07 runner in these shoes. Anyone could be doping but at a certain level you just appear to be ignorant.
It's interesting that, with the exception of Salazar (and Meyer?), I don't think that any of the early sub-2:10 Americans were very fast at 10K (track or road) - e.g., Rodgers, Durden, Beardsley, Tabb. Slightly later, Kempainen and Martin. And plenty of examples like that since (many or most after super shoes).
In fact, the easier list seems to be which sub-2:10 American marathoners WERE fast at 10K? Salazar, Rupp, and.....?
Don't call it criticism, just some observations: somebody needs to reign this kid in. He needs to take his 10k PR down before trying another marathon. If he can go 27 low a few times, he should be able to run at least 2:05, maybe 2:04 or faster. Also, he looks a little 'flat' while running... Fix his form, there's another minute off the marathon.
This is perhaps the most absurd post I've ever seen on LR. Would love to see your coaching credentials or personal accomplishments, Coach.
I'd say Richtman and his coach appear to know exactly what works for him. Now he just needs to keep stacking those quality, consistent, injury free miles. Absolutely amazing two races by this kid. Keep it up, Matt!
This is thinkingfuture, but I decided to sign in since my posts (especially the first one with 14 likes and 331 dislikes lol) have garnered attention.
Once more, I'm no coach, and never claimed to be. I wrote my personal, spur-of-the-moment observations (if you would like, you can look at my post on page 8 where I 'debunked' my own claim about the 10k) I have no coaching credentials. For privacy's sake, I will not list my personal accomplishments, but I have been running for many years, and enjoy it. Serious question: which part was absurd? The way I understand it, you are sayig that I am totally incorrect in thinking he should do things differently in order to lower his marathon PR. That is not absurd in itself, though the specific things I said may not be what he needs to do differently. However, what I said was not even unorthodox... Except for maybe the form comment, which could be seen as not unorthodox but rather too orthodox.
Guys, 2:07 is not that fast. Why are we freaking out? It's "fast for an American" I suppose but he's literally 4-5 minutes away from winning a real race.
John Korir won LA in 2002 with a 2:09, that next fall he got 3rd at Chicago in 2:05, 2:05 again last year at Chicago and 2:02 this year. So I'd say Richtman winning LA in 2:07 high is on track to be doing great things, he's in good company.
This is perhaps the most absurd post I've ever seen on LR. Would love to see your coaching credentials or personal accomplishments, Coach.
I'd say Richtman and his coach appear to know exactly what works for him. Now he just needs to keep stacking those quality, consistent, injury free miles. Absolutely amazing two races by this kid. Keep it up, Matt!
This is thinkingfuture, but I decided to sign in since my posts (especially the first one with 14 likes and 331 dislikes lol) have garnered attention.
Once more, I'm no coach, and never claimed to be. I wrote my personal, spur-of-the-moment observations (if you would like, you can look at my post on page 8 where I 'debunked' my own claim about the 10k) I have no coaching credentials. For privacy's sake, I will not list my personal accomplishments, but I have been running for many years, and enjoy it. Serious question: which part was absurd? The way I understand it, you are sayig that I am totally incorrect in thinking he should do things differently in order to lower his marathon PR. That is not absurd in itself, though the specific things I said may not be what he needs to do differently. However, what I said was not even unorthodox... Except for maybe the form comment, which could be seen as not unorthodox but rather too orthodox.
Matt is 25 years old. He is not some typical kid right out of college. He is probably running his best now and maybe through 2028 or so. He can improve as a runner, yes, but he is specializing in the marathon because he knows he is never going to run 27:10, for example. It is not going to happen. But he knows he is one of the best US marathoners right now. And that is just wonderful for a young man who didn’t set the world on fire in college. His is a great story.
For comparison Mantz was 2.13 at NYC 1/2 this weekend.
Actually it means that he is very efficient at 4.50/mile pace, which is not the same as having "a massive f'n engine".
It could be either, of course, as meters/heart beat is the result of both running economy and VO2Max.
His training runs show a much lower value for meters/heart beat, so you might be right, but we'd have to know why that is. e.g. non-super shoes in training, extra clothing because it's cold, altitude, weight vest, or just insane economy at race pace.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Some of you just aren’t very bright. There have always been outliers in this area. Beardsley probably couldn’t run faster than 13:47 and 28:21 and he would be running 2:06 or 2:07 in super shoes. Benji Durden is another example of a guy who probably would have similar 5 and 10 times but today would be a 2:07 runner in these shoes. Anyone could be doping but at a certain level you just appear to be ignorant.
It's interesting that, with the exception of Salazar (and Meyer?), I don't think that any of the early sub-2:10 Americans were very fast at 10K (track or road) - e.g., Rodgers, Durden, Beardsley, Tabb. Slightly later, Kempainen and Martin. And plenty of examples like that since (many or most after super shoes).
In fact, the easier list seems to be which sub-2:10 American marathoners WERE fast at 10K? Salazar, Rupp, and.....?
Meb, Simbassa, Ritz, Rupp, Mantz. I think every single sub 2:08 American marathoner has run around 27:40 or faster for 10,000m. Richtman is by far the slowest with a 28:20ish. And a lot of people stop running track and EVENTUALLY become great at the marathon, where they might actually run a lot faster than their old track PR. But Richtman's track PR is from less than a year ago.
Some of you just aren’t very bright. There have always been outliers in this area. Beardsley probably couldn’t run faster than 13:47 and 28:21 and he would be running 2:06 or 2:07 in super shoes. Benji Durden is another example of a guy who probably would have similar 5 and 10 times but today would be a 2:07 runner in these shoes. Anyone could be doping but at a certain level you just appear to be ignorant.
It's interesting that, with the exception of Salazar (and Meyer?), I don't think that any of the early sub-2:10 Americans were very fast at 10K (track or road) - e.g., Rodgers, Durden, Beardsley, Tabb. Slightly later, Kempainen and Martin. And plenty of examples like that since (many or most after super shoes).
In fact, the easier list seems to be which sub-2:10 American marathoners WERE fast at 10K? Salazar, Rupp, and.....?
Is Salazar the last American to run upper-level world class times at 5/10K and the marathon? It seems he MIGHT?
It's been disappointing over the years to see how shorter distance success for American men hasn't translated to the marathon (again, at least time-wise.....with the possible - and surprising - exception of Hall). I always figured that Todd Williams had a great chance of being a great marathoner. Nope. Time-wise, at least, ditto Rupp. And a small handful of others.
It's interesting that, with the exception of Salazar (and Meyer?), I don't think that any of the early sub-2:10 Americans were very fast at 10K (track or road) - e.g., Rodgers, Durden, Beardsley, Tabb. Slightly later, Kempainen and Martin. And plenty of examples like that since (many or most after super shoes).
In fact, the easier list seems to be which sub-2:10 American marathoners WERE fast at 10K? Salazar, Rupp, and.....?
Meb, Simbassa, Ritz, Rupp, Mantz. I think every single sub 2:08 American marathoner has run around 27:40 or faster for 10,000m. Richtman is by far the slowest with a 28:20ish. And a lot of people stop running track and EVENTUALLY become great at the marathon, where they might actually run a lot faster than their old track PR. But Richtman's track PR is from less than a year ago.
You never heard of Khalid Khannouchi or Ryan Hall? I am NOT saying they couldn’t have run 27:40, but I do not believe either of them did.
Meb, Simbassa, Ritz, Rupp, Mantz. I think every single sub 2:08 American marathoner has run around 27:40 or faster for 10,000m. Richtman is by far the slowest with a 28:20ish. And a lot of people stop running track and EVENTUALLY become great at the marathon, where they might actually run a lot faster than their old track PR. But Richtman's track PR is from less than a year ago.
You never heard of Khalid Khannouchi or Ryan Hall? I am NOT saying they couldn’t have run 27:40, but I do not believe either of them did.
With the 10 being run so rarely, it's hard to draw very good equivalencies between it and the marathon. As a fan, I simply know this:
1) America still manages to create men who belong on the starting line in world class distance races.
2) America does not, by and large, create men who belong on the front row at a major marathon.
Well follow the money 80s guy. The money is in the marathon, is it not? The East Africans could have probably 20 guys running 26:30ish but they chase the money in the marathon, and who can blame them?
This is perhaps the most absurd post I've ever seen on LR. Would love to see your coaching credentials or personal accomplishments, Coach.
I'd say Richtman and his coach appear to know exactly what works for him. Now he just needs to keep stacking those quality, consistent, injury free miles. Absolutely amazing two races by this kid. Keep it up, Matt!
This is thinkingfuture, but I decided to sign in since my posts (especially the first one with 14 likes and 331 dislikes lol) have garnered attention.
Once more, I'm no coach, and never claimed to be. I wrote my personal, spur-of-the-moment observations (if you would like, you can look at my post on page 8 where I 'debunked' my own claim about the 10k) I have no coaching credentials. For privacy's sake, I will not list my personal accomplishments, but I have been running for many years, and enjoy it. Serious question: which part was absurd? The way I understand it, you are sayig that I am totally incorrect in thinking he should do things differently in order to lower his marathon PR. That is not absurd in itself, though the specific things I said may not be what he needs to do differently. However, what I said was not even unorthodox... Except for maybe the form comment, which could be seen as not unorthodox but rather too orthodox.
It's absurd that your apparent first impulse upon hearing that a relatively unknown 25 year old had soloed 2:07:56, on a purportedly average course, was to say that he ran funny and needed to do things differently in training if he wanted to get faster. Doubly absurd that you posted this reaction and are still defending it.
It's bad enough that so few of the resident geniuses here saw this coming after his debut in Minneapolis (or dismissed those of us who did, and said so). There's no excuse for continued stupid takes on this athlete. He is clearly a unique emerging American talent.
This post was edited 42 seconds after it was posted.
It could be either, of course, as meters/heart beat is the result of both running economy and VO2Max.
His training runs show a much lower value for meters/heart beat, so you might be right, but we'd have to know why that is. e.g. non-super shoes in training, extra clothing because it's cold, altitude, weight vest, or just insane economy at race pace.
Meters/heart beat doesn't tell us what his stroke volume or max hr is.
But "massive f'n engine" for an endurance athlete implies a high VO2 max, which is an unrealistic expectation. His VO2 max is likely to be closer to 70 than 90 ml/kg/min.
You never heard of Khalid Khannouchi or Ryan Hall? I am NOT saying they couldn’t have run 27:40, but I do not believe either of them did.
I love Khannouchi and always will, but he ran those times at the heigh of the EPO era, lets be serious. In 1998 4 years before he ran the World and American Record (and a year after his 2:07 debut) he ran 27:46 at Peach Tree. And Ryan Hall was a HS phenom! He clearly struggled in college until his senior year when he ran 13:22 in the 5k in a championship race. Then the next year ran 13:16. Before super shoes! That is like, what, 13:05 today. Worlds better than this dude.
I love Khannouchi and always will, but he ran those times at the heigh of the EPO era, lets be serious. In 1998 4 years before he ran the World and American Record (and a year after his 2:07 debut) he ran 27:46 at Peach Tree. And Ryan Hall was a HS phenom! He clearly struggled in college until his senior year when he ran 13:22 in the 5k in a championship race. Then the next year ran 13:16. Before super shoes! That is like, what, 13:05 today. Worlds better than this dude.
Bad comparisons.
Khannouchi’s 27:45 is listed as “not legal” for road record purposes. IF you were smarter you would know that even if KK used EPO, this would also help his shorter distance performances. And KK would probably have run 2:03 in super shoes. Ryan Hall probably 2:04 in London, not counting the Boston wind effort.
Someone's gotta interview him and ask him about his training. Seems like almost no workouts and uncoached?
Dude's a beast.
I'm definitely going to reach out about this. A lot of his runs in Bozeman do appear to be in the snow/cold and at altitude. But I don't understand how his training equates to a 2:07 marathon unless there are workouts that he hasn't posted.
I would hazard a guess not everything is there. I mean he has what? 5 workouts posted recently?
I don't even know what the best training for me is, much less a super talented marathoner who (I think we can mostly all agree) can improve his training in some way
i said what i said but not anything more, so if you want to discuss what I said (he can run 2:03-2:05, he needs to run a faster 10k, he could learn more efficient running mechanics) then we can do that. Please don't assume I mean what I don;t.
The fact that you cited his "running mechanics" alone disqualifies you from opining.
And he doesn't need to run a faster 10k. He doesn't necessarily need to run another 10k, period, if he's this good a marathoning. There's a reason we have different race distances in this sport: they measure different kinds of ability, subtle though these can be within a single event range.
Exactly. Having good mechanics(looking like you are not trying) is a point in favor. But bad form is not a point against you unless its terrible(Paula).
It could be either, of course, as meters/heart beat is the result of both running economy and VO2Max.
His training runs show a much lower value for meters/heart beat, so you might be right, but we'd have to know why that is. e.g. non-super shoes in training, extra clothing because it's cold, altitude, weight vest, or just insane economy at race pace.
Meters/heart beat doesn't tell us what his stroke volume or max hr is.
But "massive f'n engine" for an endurance athlete implies a high VO2 max, which is an unrealistic expectation. His VO2 max is likely to be closer to 70 than 90 ml/kg/min.
Distance per Heartbeat conflates VO2 Max and running economy, but here is a simple way to think about running:
Only two ways to get faster More Distance per Heartbeat or More Heartbeats
1. Running Economy and VO₂max (More Distance per Heartbeat)
• VO₂max: Your maximum oxygen uptake, determining how effectively your body transports and utilizes oxygen during intense exercise. Increasing VO₂max boosts your aerobic ceiling, allowing you to deliver and use more oxygen per heartbeat, translating to more efficient energy production. • Running Economy: How efficiently you convert oxygen into forward motion—covering more distance with less energy (or fewer heartbeats). Better running economy means your muscles and biomechanics are optimized to run with minimal wasted energy.
2. Lactate Threshold and Fatigue Resistance (More Heartbeats)
• Lactate Threshold: The intensity at which lactate accumulates faster than your body clears it, marking the boundary between sustainable and unsustainable effort. Raising your lactate threshold allows you to sustain higher heart rates and effort levels for longer periods, thus enabling more total heartbeats (or sustained intensity) during races. • Fatigue Resistance: Your muscles’ and nervous system’s ability to endure prolonged effort without significant performance decline. Improved fatigue resistance means maintaining good running form, power, and coordination at higher intensity for longer durations.
In short: • More distance per heartbeat = improved aerobic capacity (VO₂max) and running economy. • More heartbeats at higher intensity = elevated lactate threshold and greater fatigue resistance. These two categories capture nearly all physiological improvements achievable through training, and effectively summarize how runners get faster.
This post was edited 5 minutes after it was posted.