This is interesting. So who are GOATS that are the most unanimous? I would say you cant really argue with Gretz, Brady, Kipchoge, Shiffrin or Phelps for example. But half of fans dont think Jordan is the goat. He was on a great team with a HOF coach which helped a great deal to get to 6 rings which really cemented opinion. Lebron has done way more with less and has many skills Jordan did not.
That's a hilariously bad take from someone who either does not understand basketball or who never watched Jordan play.
Lebron has actually done way less (4 rings vs 6) with more (Pippen, while excellent, was no prime Dwayne Wade or Anthony Davis). Lebron has hopped around trying to (and succeeding in) get top five players on stacked teams. Jordan built up Scottie Pippen to what he became (which again, was no Dwayne Wade or Anthony Davis - each arguably the best player in the game at the time).
Sorry, but you simply don't know what you are talking about.
Generational differences aside, Lebron is simply a better basketball player. Has not retired (twice), has not ever had any controversy, holds the scoring record while also being top 5 all time in assists. Can you imagine what the discourse would be if Lebron retired for mental health reasons? If he had to sell a floundering franchise out of nowhere? He would be eviscerated.
His scoring is more efficient, his efg% and virtually every other advanced metric is also better. Yes, Jordon won more rings, but what was he without Scottie? The league then was also ridiculously weaker than today.
Lebron beat arguably the greatest team of all time down 3-1 in the finals. A team that had to add Kevin Durant, a top 10 player in his own right, to even have a chance against his Cavs.
The two of them are heads and shoulders better than the rest, but Lebron still has another 3 years of near MVP level basketball in him. We've all seen Jordan, we've all seen the Lebron. If Lebron had to adapt to the 90s physicality, he would. If Jordan had to take a charge from 2013 Lebron, he'd go back to baseball
You are in all due respect missing my point. I'm not saying the were the best in their sport but they were certainly the most influential in and off the field. They transcended their sport and were household names. They were of high moral character and integrity. Above reproach. There was no-one who didn't know who they were or respected them. Even to this day. Who on this board who grew up in the 60s or 70s didn't start running because of Jim Ryun? I for one did. How many SI covers was he on? Who didn't follow Arnie's Army? Jack was a better golfer for sure, but certainly not as loved and respected as Arnie. El G was a faster miler, but who outside hardcore followers of the sport even know who he is? Ask 10 people who Bekele of Kigchoge is? To this day, both of these gentlemen: Palmer and Ryun (and I say gentlemen) continue to inspire others. I don't think you can say that about anyone else. Not Ruth, not Ali, not Gretsky, not Brady, not Tiger, not Phelps, not Serena, not Biles. All all-time great athletes for sure, but I submit that no-one and I mean no-one has transcended their sport as Palmer and Ryun did. They are the GOATS in my book. Argue me if you wish.
Roger Bannister has transcended his sport more than Palmer or Ryun or any other athlete (except maybe Ali). Today, Bannister's first sub-4 Mile still strongly resonates beyond the sport. Do a Google search or Google Alerts and there are near daily, countless and seemingly endless articles on or mentioning Bannister, particularly on achieving the so-called impossible or being the first to succeed at a major human goal.
Ali's a sporting great, but he's not the GOAT boxer.
Jordan and Brady are GOATs but it's a team sport, and on that note Gretzky should be in there.
The tennis discussion is the most interesting one, imo. Three game breaking athletes, two of them chasing a living legend. If anything, I think Federer's got one of the strongest GOAT arguments in sport, but it's overshadowed by the realities of being 6 years older than Djokovic.
Bekele's an unknown outside of running. Inside of running he doesn't even hold any world records.
WR for most XC world wins
10,000m 26:17 without supershoes or laser light pacing
5,000m - 12:37 without supershoes or laser light pacing
The 1 person who ran faster than the above 2 times is now broken as a result and I don't expect him to run near these times again. After running those track WRs Bekele stayed consistent, and Bekele was not even 100% when he ran his WRs so he could of gone faster
That's a hilariously bad take from someone who either does not understand basketball or who never watched Jordan play.
Lebron has actually done way less (4 rings vs 6) with more (Pippen, while excellent, was no prime Dwayne Wade or Anthony Davis). Lebron has hopped around trying to (and succeeding in) get top five players on stacked teams. Jordan built up Scottie Pippen to what he became (which again, was no Dwayne Wade or Anthony Davis - each arguably the best player in the game at the time).
Sorry, but you simply don't know what you are talking about.
Generational differences aside, Lebron is simply a better basketball player. Has not retired (twice), has not ever had any controversy, holds the scoring record while also being top 5 all time in assists. Can you imagine what the discourse would be if Lebron retired for mental health reasons? If he had to sell a floundering franchise out of nowhere? He would be eviscerated.
His scoring is more efficient, his efg% and virtually every other advanced metric is also better. Yes, Jordon won more rings, but what was he without Scottie? The league then was also ridiculously weaker than today.
Lebron beat arguably the greatest team of all time down 3-1 in the finals. A team that had to add Kevin Durant, a top 10 player in his own right, to even have a chance against his Cavs.
The two of them are heads and shoulders better than the rest, but Lebron still has another 3 years of near MVP level basketball in him. We've all seen Jordan, we've all seen the Lebron. If Lebron had to adapt to the 90s physicality, he would. If Jordan had to take a charge from 2013 Lebron, he'd go back to baseball
LeBron better than Jordan? Not. And neither of them are better than Wilt Chamberlain.
my definition is a bit more than just sport excellence. it's a cultural impact. so much so, a grandmother in a foreign country who knows nothing about sport would stop what she was doing and watch x.
Lewis Hamilton? statistically the best f1 racer by far
schumacher gets disqualified for his dirty racing that nearly killed drivers multiple times. Was it Senna he tried to ram off the track and got a season ban for? He was a cool dude, but behind the wheel he was a total goblin
I agree that Roger Bannister's sun 4-minute mile was among the most historically significant moments in all of sports. Without a doubt. He did it in the the year I was born so I had no knowledge of it unless I was much older. Jim Ryun on the other hand was running his amazing times and performances in my formative years. I was a skinny sickly athmatic 14- year old when I, as barely a high school freshman, read the Jim Ryun Story in the high school library. It changed my life. I couldn't comprehend how a high school kid could run so fast. I stopped taking my weekly asthma/allergy shots and started running. I could barely make it to the corner mailbox and back. I slowly worked my around the block, once, twice, until I could run a mile without collapsing. I went out for the xc team in the fall of my sophomore year. A year later I was the Philadelphia suburban champion and never lost another HS race. Big deal, right? But I owe it all to Jim Ryun. He was my hero. As a 16-year-old HS junior (I was running about 4:24 for the mile at that time, big whoop) I went to the Martin Luther Games in 1971 at Franklin Field where I had a front row seat to watch my hero race the Dream Mile. He lost in a kick to Marty Liquori. I ran out of the stadium where I caught Jim doing his cool down. He signed my program (which I still have) and invited me to finish his cool down with him. I'll never forget it. Fast forward, I never became a very good miler. I ran 4:05-4:07 in college but didn't have the God-given ability or enough opportunities to get any faster. I was a very small fish in a big pond. Who cares, right? That said, Jim Ryun is my GOAT. Go ahead all the youngsters on this board; pat me on the head and say go away nostalgic old man. This is my last post on my board, anyway. Too many mean people here. Try to be kind and humble LR folks. It takes no more effort to be nice than to be mean.
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