50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Iggy as you know Ed was the exact opposite , he made the same batch of doughnutz everyday.

Maybe substitute 20 mile long run 8 thru 12 at goal MP pace

with

Day one 14 last 2 at MP

Next day 12 last 4 at MP

So 26 over 2 days vs 20 over one then 2 or 3 days of rest make strong like bull

But only If turned into a marathoner which is about as likely as a federal budget surplus.

Hello printing money is not the same a increasing productivity make every man a millionaire and a can of beans will cost 5 hundred bucks

How many days of rest do I take/need ?

No springy in legs then I do some easy aerobic activities and always try to burn at least 1000 calories of aerobic activity per day.

Just a quick comment on b2b hard days.

In my early 50s I regularly did b2b races 20 hours apart and raced the 2d race as well and sometimes even better than the first.

2019 my best 2 races both 8 km of trails (very similar courses) both 36.00 run 20 hours apart. The 2d one was probably a bit better run than the first as it was muddier.

I was late 59 at that stage.

So even an old slow plodder like me off crappy training can back up well within the 24 hr window.

mopac, pretty clear you are a strong runner, but even stronger in the head..... ...

Charlie, no desire to run the marathon, even though should be theoretically my best race distance. 800m seems more interesting at this age...regarding inflation, Fed says transitory, Buffett says all businesses experiencing rising input costs, once starts likely to keep going....

800 good choice

Why faster on day 2 WAG tendons become better at returning energy from day 1 loading. So even though you have muscle break down the tendon improvement more than compensates for this.

There is an interesting chart illustrating this near the end of the article.

https://www.physio-pedia.com/Tendon_Biomechanics

'mopac wrote:

Just a quick comment on b2b hard days.

In my early 50s I regularly did b2b races 20 hours apart and raced the 2d race as well and sometimes even better than the first.

2019 my best 2 races both 8 km of trails (very similar courses) both 36.00 run 20 hours apart. The 2d one was probably a bit better run than the first as it was muddier.

I was late 59 at that stage.

So even an old slow plodder like me off crappy training can back up well within the 24 hr window.

I've experienced the same thing and been a bit baffled by it. The day before I set my 10K PR of 32:12 I ran a fairly hard double of two 6 milers. According to my log, my legs were really sore at the start but obviously it did not slow me down.

I thought you ladies and gents might find this amusing.

30s!

https://twitter.com/patkc13/status/1389774186692825088?s=20

I hit the track for my first day of "800m training." Success is described as "I did not injure myself."

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

I hit the track for my first day of "800m training." Success is described as "I did not injure myself."

oorah. It gets better.

I had a great workout last night at the track : 4 x mile. They came out well below my stretch 5000m goal pace, so I just need to stay healthy and get in a competitive race. and maybe just maybe I'll get in a good one. it would take an 84% age graded effort, which I've never done before. Would be a lifetime highlight if I can get 'er done.

Very good agip. I usually did 3 x mile in race prep, four is tough. You should join us and post weekly. It would be fun to follow your progress.

My best age grading was 84.03 a 4:54 1500m just before my 57th birthday. Recently (pre-chemo) my best age grading was about 10 points lower, post chemo another 10 points lower. I suspect most of the decline is willingness to dedicate myself to the task. I am having fun constructing the training, and we'll see where it goes. Better to have an " oops" than always an "if."

Igy

Igy,

Does your focusing on 800 m imply more emphasis on strengthening ? I hope so.

Wish you keep staying injury-free!

Orient,

Thanks for the advice. Yes, I am in the gym twice a week, and swimming twice a week. Gym routine: physio ball, bosu ball, planks, overhead press, bench press, squats, and heel drops. Swimming at about 3,000 yards currently. Is that enough? Suggestions? Doing my best to moderate the enthusiasm so I do not hurt myself. Also, approaching the event more from the distance side, Snell versus Juantorena. 😹 Seriously, that is what I am trying to do, of course with the multitude of adjustments for a 70 year old.

Igy

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Orient,

Thanks for the advice. Yes, I am in the gym twice a week, and swimming twice a week. Gym routine: physio ball, bosu ball, planks, overhead press, bench press, squats, and heel drops. Swimming at about 3,000 yards currently. Is that enough? Suggestions? Doing my best to moderate the enthusiasm so I do not hurt myself. Also, approaching the event more from the distance side, Snell versus Juantorena. 😹 Seriously, that is what I am trying to do, of course with the multitude of adjustments for a 70 year old.

Igy

Igy,

Sounds like you are on the right strenght path. As we age we need to do more strengthing to keep from getting injured. I too am in the gym three times a week working on overall strenght which includes some lifting, but a lot of lower leg stuff, as well as core. I also run a lot of hills including short fast sprints up them. I also run very slowly short (200 meters) hills at a 10-12 % grade working on good knee lift. So I am doing some form of strenght work, besides running, every day. I even do some box jumping as well as hurdle hops which I made out of PVC. Best of fortune to you.

Thanks. In my late 50s I did some of your suggestions and it worked well. Back then, I had a dedicated day to do plyometrics. The session lasted about 30 minutes, with a mile jog before and after. The mile cool-down was tough. How do you integrate the hill sprints and plyometrics into your week? Breakdown a week suggested plan, if you don’t mind.

Igy,

I am probably not the right guy to advise about strength development because legs are my point of weakness and usual "point of failure". CdB seems to be way way more experienced, so I am attentively read what he writes (thanks, CdB).

Being fed up with injuries I am now trying to exercise on the days of easy runs doing some plyometrics, calf raise, box jumping, etc. Pretty conventional stuff, which I was evading because of my laziness. I am also doing, once a week , short uphills - smth like 8 x 50 sec in a sandpit.

Good luck!

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Thanks. In my late 50s I did some of your suggestions and it worked well. Back then, I had a dedicated day to do plyometrics. The session lasted about 30 minutes, with a mile jog before and after. The mile cool-down was tough. How do you integrate the hill sprints and plyometrics into your week? Breakdown a week suggested plan, if you don’t mind.

Igy and Orient you are both doing things that I am also doing.

Yes, I'd be glad to breakdown a week for you.

Typically, I have three hard workouts a week. A long run (15-17 miles), a speed session which consists of sprints on the track (200-300 meters) or short (45 sec) up a steep hill. The other workout is a threshold pace workout which could be six miles 20-30 per mile slower than my 10k race pace, or 6xmile at a similar effort with a short (60 sec) rest, or a hard hilly loop of 9.5 miles.

I hit the weight room 3 x weekly on my easy days. (Easy days for me is 8-10 miles at a relaxed pace).

In the weight room I have a circuit I do three times. Some of the exercises include, hamstring curls, leg extensions, squats with weights, bench press, calf raises, feet extensions , a couple of core exerises, box jumping, IT exercises, and a few more that are similar. I also perform various running drills, hurdle hopping, and plenty of hill work. When I am doing my running drills up hill, I am focusing on driving my knees , on my toes, and using good arm drive. After each workout, I have a 30 minute routine that encompasses stretching, a little more strengthing using my body, and a couple of exercises to keep my back and hips/pelvis's aligned. Of course I am doing other things like working out in the yard hauling gravel, and about once a week right now, going up into the nearby mountains cutting and splitting a lot of fire wood . At 66 I am stronger and have better running form than when I was 56. And I suppose , time will tell, that I am age grading higher now than ever. It feels so good to be able to train hard without injury. For example, yesterday I ran 10x200 meters on the track around 37-38 with a 200 jog . It feels great to be able to sprint without any lower leg or hamstring problems. Now that I say that, I will probably come down with something. So I have shared with you my training. Everyone is different. Do what works for you. For the past couple of years I have been working on the mental side of things when pushing hard in practice that helps me run through the physical pain when pushing hard. That is a whole nother topic. Enjoy life and expect greatness.

Thanks gents. I am going to add a day of plyometrics and hill sprints like I did in my late 50s. I will add that on Fridays in lieu of spin bike, or swimming if I can’t get a Thursday lane. Vern Gambetta, who has written much on plyometrics and what he calls functional training, used the concept of ground “contacts” to monitor loading. With that in mind, I will start with five exercises with the one set each, making five contacts, for a total of twenty-five contacts. I will follow that with 4 x 30 second hill runs with good form emphasis. Mile warm-up to a park location of grass and dirt trail with a 10-20 degree slope, mile cool-dowm, then core plus free weight.

Should be fun. I appreciate the thoughtfulness and inspiration.

Igy

I've posted enough here for most anyone who wants to see what I do on a week to week basis, but will add just a couple thoughts on back to back and strength work.

Doing some back to back trashed my legs in college--but back then I usually did everything too fast in workouts and paid the price on race days. Ever since have mostly done easy-hard, but in my 40s and through mid-50s would do some longer runs and next day do a faster workout or fartlek. So 12-15 on a Sunday and the next day 300s or tempo-surge workout. Or maybe an tempo run on a Tuesday and Wednesday 5 or 6X 200 moderately fast.

Now more than ever I run by feel and I rarely feel like doing a faster workout the next day.

8-10 years ago I was doing a lot of strength work through most of the year (periodized) to supplement XC skiing and running (focus on which depending on season), have avoided plyos and springy high-impact stuff since my mid-30s. Over the past 5 years have just done core and specific strength work to work on weaknesses. No leg weights and very little arm/shoulder work other than 3-4 months of semi consistent XC skiing over the winter. The short cycling workouts I have added this year (3X or 4X a week) have improved my quad strength, which might help with overall strength and injury prevention, but I am yet to see a benefit in speed for workouts or races from that supplemental work.

Using the go by feel ruler, I can tell I need an easy day today. I will try to implement something more for Fridays, but at this time perhaps a little much.

So last year cut 400 by more than 5 seconds

by sprinting all out CAREFULLY!

Inspired by Feed the Cats.

This guy

https://youtu.be/We_3Jv9BzpI?t=804