50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

M: off.

T-SU: 10.7km.

My hamstrings finally started feeling better on Saturday, so I decided to do push my pace a little bit on Sunday. (9:49-9:21-9:08-8:58-8:52-8:46). The registration for the half marathon is Wednesday. So I will run again tomorrow before making my final decision.

Orient...great 5k.

CBD...Outstanding triple for your high schooler. Kid I coach just won a great duel in 4:18; ran 9:22 in March; has Regional Championships tomorrow. Top 4 advance to Sectionals. And it's a one-day meet and 85F so we are running for position and the win.

Me...blew off an outdoor 800 as they were way behind and then there were 75! Heats of the 100 before the 800s. Will try again this Saturday. I saw where Dan King ran a stellar 2:18 at age 61!

KPga

KPdx wrote:

Orient...great 5k.

CBD...Outstanding triple for your high schooler. Kid I coach just won a great duel in 4:18; ran 9:22 in March; has Regional Championships tomorrow. Top 4 advance to Sectionals. And it's a one-day meet and 85F so we are running for position and the win.

Me...blew off an outdoor 800 as they were way behind and then there were 75! Heats of the 100 before the 800s. Will try again this Saturday. I saw where Dan King ran a stellar 2:18 at age 61!

KPga

Had something like that at the Armoury at Metropolitan Athletic Conference once years ago. There about 100 400m heats, and the Masters Mile went off at about 2:00 am in the morning. Did manage to win it, then the guy who finished second wanted to get into it, I think because of me sitting on him. Tempers get a bit frayed when you've been waiting 5 hours past advertised start time...

So I time trialed a 10,000 on the track today being paced by my track distance runners. I thought I would be able to break the 65-69 age group record of 38:34. Unfortunetely I fell four seconds short. Certainly disappointed. My boys helped me get that close. The weather was 80 degrees. For you scientically minded, how much, if any, did the heat affect my performance? Really thought I should have been able to run faster.

Coureur des bois wrote:

So I time trialed a 10,000 on the track today being paced by my track distance runners. I thought I would be able to break the 65-69 age group record of 38:34. Unfortunetely I fell four seconds short. Certainly disappointed. My boys helped me get that close. The weather was 80 degrees. For you scientically minded, how much, if any, did the heat affect my performance? Really thought I should have been able to run faster.

👍

80 degrees is pretty warm, especially early in the year, and racing 10,000 meters. How about humidity, which would be a big factor affecting cooling?

Great result even at an ideal temperature.

28 percent humidity

CdB, what a great result! Congratulations and respect!

Though I am among those “scientifically minded” as you put it (a “worker of wonders and miracles” in spaceflight simulation) but you should not be a Nobel prize guy to say for sure that not less than 30-40 sec should be subtracted from your result to get an equivalent for a comfortable weather. Below are some results of my quick search on the Net.

First, Jack Daniels estimates 12 sec per mile increase for 10K at 80F :

https://runsmartproject.com/

(use the “advanced features” window there).

Second, some research based on various statistics testify to, as minimum, 3+ min increase for 30K and 4.5 min for marathon (could not find for 10K, though) at 75-80F.

Third, all those dependencies are quite non-linear. Humidity matters a lot. Your weight and body structure matters, too (statistics show that very light guys usually win in heat).

All in all, virtually you smashed the record, no doubt!

Strongest week for "Project sub-20" in quite a while.

I'm not sure that it would be repeatable though, but I've now got two weeks to do some easier stuff before the race. Need about 19:17 at 64 to get back to best age graded time (although that was track). I think for the next cycle, the occasional 90 minute run, and hills have to come into the mix. Still, I was all out to do 2 miles at 8:00 at the end of December, so it's progress.

Sat - 5.51 miles - 39:27 (7:09) - including 12x 90 seconds stride/90 seconds steady

Sun - 8.32 miles - 58:59 (7:05)

Mon - 3.14 miles - 26:32 (8:27)

Tue - 5.0 miles - 37:32 (7:30)

Wed - 5.84 miles - 43:20 (7:27) - including 8x800 with 200m in 90 sec recovery - 3:07, 3:08, 3:09, 3:10, 3:09, 3:09,

3:10, 3:07 - so about 3:08.5 average (19:35 pace).

Thur - 4.23 miles - 32:55 (7:47)

Friday - 5.01 miles 37:23 (7:28)

Saturday - 4.76 miles including 2 mile time trial - 12:37 (6:16, 6:21).

Was still only hitting about 10 bpm short of my max HR on the reps and the time trial, so maybe a little leg fatigue rather than maxing out cardio-vascular ability. I may not have run a mile in 6:16 in the last two years - it will be two years since I raced come the race in mid-May. With a bit of luck the time trial might have reminded the brain and body about sustained effort.

Hoping with freshening that I can maybe I can run around 19:45. I think I could have just about gutted out a high 19 (would have needed a 6:42 pace last 1.1).

Magnificent 10,000 Cbd! Just Wow! What an aerobic engine you have.

Cavorty... I think you're more than ready for sub 20:00.

I blew off another outdoor 800 attempt yesterday due to (no exaggeration) 200 Heats on the schedule for the 400-100-800s before the Masters 800!

So I jumped in a local 5k with lots of hills and turns. Managed a 19:43 but exactly the opposite of my game plan and what I coach high schoolers to do. 5:58-6:18-6:38 for the first 3 miles. An ugly race that cost me the overall win too.

Isn't it funny that us 60+ years olds can still make racing errors?

KPga

Kudos to you racers!

Racing would be to exciting for me. My M50 counter measures against working stress were:

Mo: 5x40m flying, 4 miles WU/CD

Tu: 1 h drills / jumps uphill

We: 7 miles easy, 4x100m buildups with jog back

Th: 3x1600m in 6:20 min with 400m walk, 4 miles WU/CD

Fr: 7 miles easy

Sa: 5x30 sec repetitions slight uphill with 3-5 min walk back until HR=100, 5.5 miles WU/CD

Su: 8 miles recovery in the hills

Track is closed due to Corona. Went to the forest and did my repetion runs on a nice forest road gently uphill. Was curious how responsive is my HR to 30 sec fast running. I have no HR measuring gadget. Old school, finger on the throat and counting for 15s :). After run#3 HR was 51/52. After run#4 HR was 52/53. Tried not to overdo it on run#5. Since the runs were not "really" hard, the HRmax during overswinging after the run could be even higher. No reason to test this now. Will limit next set of 200ers to HR200 and keep break to 3-4 min.

Have a good week!

Good morning. Typical spring weather, nice rain yesterday evening, but wind blew birch seed bags all over my freshly mowed yard. Cool morning temperatures though, perfect for running. I spoke with the Idaho Senior Games Director last Monday, he assured me there will be an event in August. I have decided to focus my training on the 800m this season. This week I settled on getting my cross training volume up (30 Igy miles), but did add

one running session, and one timed track session. Next week I will add gym sessions, and sprint drills.

Sunday: 50:00 spin bike

Monday: 2 mile neighborhood mail box fartlek (4 on / 1 off)

Tuesday: 1500 yards swimming

Wednesday: 2 miles E; 6 x 700m Tempo / 100m walk; mile E

Thursday: 3 mile walk

Friday: 1500 yards swimming

Saturday: 2 miles E; 5 x 500m Interval Pace @ 2:44, 2:37, 2:33, 2:27, 2:22 / 300m walk; mile E

Have a good week.

Igy

As expected our Tour de Tasmania in a little campervan didn't lead to a staggering week of high quality training.

Mon. Morning beach walk at Snug finished off with 2 barefoot kms on the grass footy oval. 5.00 and 4.28.

We then set off for beautiful Bruny Island.

Our day finished with a solid hike up to the top of Fluted Cape gaining 280 metres in 2.5 kms, back down at sea level I went off for a rugged trail trot of about 3 kms.

Tue. A 3km long soft sand hike into a 2 km steep climb and return. Finished the day off with a 6 km forest run in 34 mins in the dark, quite a solid 2 kms uphill to the turn.

Wed. No running but did manage a rugged 6 km loop from the top of Hobart's Mt Wellington. 350 metres elevation gain.

Thu. Morning walk then 4 km barefoot on grass sports grounds, 5.22, 5.03, 4.44, 4.22.

We arrived back home 11.30 pm.

Fri. Jogged around my usual hiking routes a total of 5 km and 220 metres gained in 38 mins.

Evening "Light Up The Night" mtb fun ride in the dark on our gravel railtrail which runs mostly through forests.

I somehow find myself out front of the 200 or so riders after 2 kms. I was keen to have a crack at breaking the hour (pb 65 m) on the 24 km strava segment but this year had no one to work with.

I maintained a strong effort soloing out front until a 3 man chase group of 20 somethings caught me with a few km to go. They dropped me up the 2d last hill but I got back on up the last climb and stayed with them to the finish. Strava segment was 62 min so a 3 min pb. The sub hour will have to wait.

Sat. Just my morning hike of 3 plus kms/160m.

We had a squad of house guests through the weekend.

Sun. Our trail marathon, Ekiden, half mar. 10km and 5 km in the am.

My recent hectic weeks with minimal real training and some empty quads from Friday night had me content to just run a controlled 5 tempo run.

Our "household" had 7 starters in various events. Star of the show was my son. He had been helping his work colleague train for a half. This was mostly very slow (6.30ish km pace) 5 to 6 km jogs at the end of shift at 11 pm. The colleague realised the half was not realistic so she just ran the 10 happily finishing in 62 mins.

My son stuck to his guns and ran the half. Off a program of 15 to 20 very slow kms per week and martial arts he made it home in 1 h 44 m.

All up more than 1000 starters across the 5 running events. For a town of 2500 that is pretty pleasing.

Normal transmission resumes tomorrow. Back to work for me and also back into a bit of a training routine.

Cdb, impressive 10k effort in the conditions. I had a very good training year when I was 68 and ran an accurately measured road 10k in 38:56 in a lot cooler conditions, and thought it was one of my best race efforts in the last several years. I am a long way off that now. This week was nearly identical to last week for me as I again took W,Th,F off to let the PF in my left foot settle down. I ran moderately hard yesterday with my son and daughter-in-law and had no soreness this AM, so I think I may have it nearly healed. 20 miles for the week -

M- 6mi 8:45/mi (I started at ~9:30/mi pace and halfway through some young lady came rolling by me at about 8:00/mi, so I decided to see if I could hang on and ran the 2nd half at that pace).

T- 4mi easy run/walk 12:35/mi

W- rest

Th- rest

F- rest

S- 6mi trails 8:55/mi with my son and d-in-law

Su- 4mi walk barefoot on the beach with strides every 1/2 mi.

Good running to all!

Well done on the 5k. If you're training for the 800m, 5k pace is going to feel really slow early, so it's not surprising that it was hard to pace.

CdB, congrats on a terrific time trial. I can’t cite any science, but there’s no way I could run my best at any distance beyond maybe 1500m at a temperature of 80 degrees, even if dry. I’d say have another go at it at 60 degrees.

Cavorty, the training is looking very good.

KPdx, a hilly 19:43 sounds very good to me at 60+, but I hear you. That’s exactly what I was thinking two years ago when I crawled in to a 4:03 marathon finish after going out way too fast and crashing at 17 miles. The nice thing about a 5K is that if it gets ugly, the ugly doesn’t last long.

Igy, good to see you coming back from house painting duty.

My broken shoulder continues to heal and I made it through my first physical therapy appointment intact. But I’m becoming increasingly worried about the hip problem that caused me to crash in the first place. Several times in the past week I’ve tried just a bit of jogging, under varying conditions: right after getting off the bike trainer, at various points during a brisk walk, and once jogging in place in my carpeted living room. Each time, after just a few steps my left hip went into spasm and I had to stop. The one time I tried to jog through it, I had to stop after a few dozen strides and ended up so sore I could hardly walk the next day. Spinning a bike trainer doesn’t bother it at all and brisk walking usually doesn’t either, although occasionally I take a wrong step and feel a stab of pain. My “training” week amounted to a daily bike spin of 40-70 minutes, three brisk 10K walks, and several days at the gym working my legs and my unbroken arm. Two months of zero running and working the hip in ways that don’t bother it is not getting me anywhere. Next week I’ll ask my shoulder physical therapist if she has any ideas…

M61, 5'11", 185 lbs.

Most recent reasonable results were at age 58-59 (18:57 5K, 59:59 15K, 3:07 marathon). Chronic knee issues since then.

Over coffee this morning I caught up with the past few weeks of posts. Wow, some amazing World Class performances -- always inspirational to see what folks here are doing. Others on the mend, maybe in time for some races, eh? I'm particularly looking forward to Coyote Montane's marathon! Last one was Boston? The cold, rainy WINDY Boston, yes?

When last I posted, I was a month or so into my latest "restart." Other than one non-running week, I've kept things going at a modest level. The past two weeks:

Sun -- Bike 23.6 mi @ 18.0 mph

Mon - Off

Tues- 5.0 miles (9:16/mi out, 9:01/mi back)

Wed - Off

Thur - Off

Fri --- 10.0 miles (2.5mi legs @ 9:33/mi, 9:33, 9:21, 8:28)

Sat --- Off

Sun-- Bike 12.8 mi @ 19.0 mph

Mon - Off

Tues - Bike 23.5 mi @ 18.1 mph

Wed - 4.0 miles (9:33/mi out, 8:58/mi back)

Thur - Off

Fri --- Off

Sat --- 4.0 miles (9:47, 9:24, 9:05, 8:00)

Weight is still an issue -- 20 lbs over race weight. I really feel it during climbs on the bike. Need to lose it soon. I have a bicycling adventure planned for July: a second "Ancestral Tour" with my brother -- visiting ancestors' homesites and cemeteries.

Three years ago it was Madison County, NY (north of Syracuse). Early settlers with colonial Connecticut and Massachusetts roots -- surnames Hakes, Fuller, Sims, Bailey, Richardson, Olcott, Clark (Samuel Fuller arrived on the Mayflower, 1620).

This summer will be Ithaca and Corning areas of New York. Early settlers with colonial Hudson Valley and New Jersey roots -- surnames Woodruff, Kennedy, Dill, Updike, Lewis, Burke, Whelan. The last two were "recent" immigrants from Ireland (1842).

Be well!

Lots of good stuff the last few weeks!

Motivational ! Almost went for a 2mile TT but need to keep my focus on base building

Orient,CM,CDB,Cavorty and KPga racing/TT well and Mopac 3 minute PR bike race.

Two 90 minutes runs this week.

Highlight

Short version ran a course indicating that I am about 10 seconds per mile slower than 2 years ago.

Off way less running but same volume of exercise just more cross training.

Long version My Big Dune LT run . 18 months ago I did this loop when super fit 3 times with about 1 minute rests averaging 8:50. I have not ran any deep sand with big hills for over a year. My expectations were maybe one loop in 9:30. I hit the first time check ( top of the last big dune) in 3:15 vs 2:50. Dam! Down 25 seconds already. But I went on to finish in 9:04 only down 14 seconds. Felt great so lap 2 was another 9:04. Could have done a third lap but passed as I still had an hour of running to do. So I am only off by 10 seconds per mile from when I was pretty fit. But I am only running 2 or 3 days a week. Half the run but longer and a bit harder. Variety is the spice of life!

Here is a short OLD video showing the hilly part of the course

https://youtu.be/OxEI5UTD3rI