50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

This week was a good training week, and I was almost fully back to back to my training plan for the week. Running mileage was 35 miles plus 2 bike rides for 13 miles and 2 SUP board sessions for 4 miles.

M- 6 miles 8:56/mi

T- 7 miles hills 10:08/mi; PM 6.5 mile bike

W- 5 miles with 1 mi w.u. 16x200 hard/200 easy; 2 mile paddle

Th- 3 miles easy; PM 6.5 mile bike

F- 4 miles easy: 2 mile paddle

S- 6 miles trails with my son 8:19/mi

Su- 4 miles easy of 400M walk/400M run

Good running to all!

Hello all!

What a nice video from Charlie!

I am slowly picking up after the XC ski season has been closed a week ago.. Had 5 runs this week, for the first time this year.

Mon: 40 min elliptical at home, easy.

Tue: 6 miles on road. 2 miles warm-up, then 2x200 shake-up, then 4K trial (16’08”) at the pace that I felt was my 5K pace on that day, then 1.5 miles cool-down.

Wed: 6 miles easy-moderate on road (controlling HR about 70-73% of max).

Thu: 40 min elliptical, easy.

Fri: 7 miles on road. Testing Asics MetaSpeed Sky shoes. Starting with 1.5 miles warm-up (incl. 2x200m fast segments), then 5x1K with 500m jogging/walking in between, then 1.5 miles cool-down.

Sat: 5 miles easy on road.

Sun: “long” 9 miles run on road, easy to easy-moderate (well, it is indeed long for me at the moment).

Subtotal for the week: 33 miles running and 80 min on elliptical. IMHO, it’s adequate for my transition period. The main goal now is to avoid injuries.

About to be 64-year-old. Back about 4 1/2 months after 12 weeks off.

Last 8 days is below. I generally have an idea of how to get fit, but not so much for a 64-year-old. Not a lot of literature on how to coach someone of that age, and I do all my training alone.

Do people think that the really long run 90 min+ is necessary if you've been running for 50 years? I have got up as far as doing 9 at 7:24 a few weeks back.

Is 40 miles per week (what I've worked up to) enough?

Mid-term target is to run under 20 min for 5k. Longer term a 10k in September.

HR is 40 resting, max about 165

Sat – 7 miles at 7:02 including 8x400m in 92 sec with 400m float in about 1:50 (7:30 pace) – do this stuff as a one continuous run – out to the track straight into session – run and back. HR average 132 - max 152.

Sun – 8 miles in 59:03 – 7:22 pace. HR average 124

Mon – 4.17 miles – 7:55 pace. Garmin messed up. Would have been under 120

Tue – 5 miles – 7:37 pace - HR average 120

Wed – 6.63 miles – 7:01 pace, including 6x800m in 3:12, 3:09, 3:07, 3:07, 3:07, 3:07 – again as a continuous run. HR average 135 peaked at 152

Thur – 5 miles – 7:33 pace - HR average 121

Friday –Off. Chore/time related would normally have another steady 5 mile recovery run

Sat – 6.66 at 6:56 – continuous run of warm up mile in 6:56 - three miles threshold 6:27, 6:33, 6:30 – warm-down 7:05, 7:35, 7:37 (final point 0.66). HR averaged 139, peaked at 152, down to 140, high 130s on warm-down.

HR is the right kind of average for effort by McMillan or Daniels, I think, but paces at those HR are a lot quicker. HR was only 130 after a warm-up mile in 6:56 yesterday.

I've been doing the harder sessions a little leg tired, but that's deliberate. Years ago, I would do very low mileage to be fresh for the track-sessions - run incredible track sessions, then peak very rapidly and get 'stale.' This way, the sessions are mediocre, but still solid, and I'm hoping I can keep improving for longer.

My project completion is in reach. Last week walked and ran 14 miles. Saturday ran 5 x 350m with the group. Felt fine after very little running the past six weeks. Hours on a ladder in the sun more exhausting than running. I have acquired a healthy mid-summer tan. Good general conditioning. Hopefully add a bit more structured exercise this week.

Igy

Greetings , I wanted to get an opinion on best approach to take. I’m a 55 yo male with master’s best of 48:26 and 1:48:27 2 years ago. I ran NYC in 2019 hoping to sniff 4 hours. I got up to 50 mpw but failed miserably after 17 miles , limping home in 4:40.

No racing since then due to covid. My “ White Whale” is a sub 4 hour marathon before I get too old. After having covid in Jan , I’m back to training consistently and have taken the approach that I need to build my endurance. To that end I have been keeping my mileage constant for 3 weeks , then dropping for a cut back week before increasing mileage again by 6 miles per week for another 3 weeks so last 8 weeks have been

32,32,32,24

38,38,38,26

Next block will be: 43,43,43,30

I run mostly easy miles with some hill strides once or twice a week. If I’m feeling good I’ll end some of my aerobic runs as a fast finish or put some one minute surges in towards end of long runs.

My LR is at 10 miles currently and run 6 days a week

I was planning to keep this schedule until I get into hi 50- low 60 mpw , then add some basic workouts ( fartleks, tempos) before going into a marathon training plan for Spring 2022.

I don’t have much interest in racing shorter distances.

As an aside I also do strength and mobility stuff 2 hours a week.

Any thoughts to my approach?

with the disclaimer that I'm not a coach, your plan sounds good to me. Of course you have to listen to your body and see how things are going rather than making a rigid plan for months in the future, but FWIW if you were me you might look at approximate start date for your marathon training program, and rough idea of where it will begin in relation to long run, workouts, total mileage......

........then count back from that and make sure you're ending up the "pre-season" fairly close to those beginning-of-season levels. As a for-instance, if the program starts with, say, a 17-mile long run and a 20-min. tempo in that first week, you don't want to hit that point having run nothing over 10 miles and no workouts beyond strides. Too much of a shock to the system.

But as I say, it sounds like you're on track. Stay healthy, and good luck!

My week was uneventful with continued slow-stuff for the most part nursing hamstring back to life:

M 1:15

Tu 2:05 double

W 1:00

Th 1:20 with drills and strides

F 55:00

Sa 1:15 with first foray into something quicker (not a lot -- 4k in 20:30, so almost a minute a mile slower than marathon pace)

Su: 1:35

ups and downs, but at least this weekend feels a little better, knock on wood.

have a great week,

Dave

It's nice to see lots of folks having good training weeks and ramping up.

I had a quiet and uneventful week of healing from my dislocated/fractured shoulder. The spectacular bruising is fading a bit and the initial mild swelling seems to have disappeared. There’s still little or no pain as long as I’m careful not to move the upper arm very much. It’s not clear that moving it a little more would be painful, but I’m going to be careful and wait for my follow-up x-rays and orthopedist visit which won’t happen for another 11 days. I wear my sling whenever I leave the house or do anything at all active, but I take it off to sleep and when just sitting around.

My “training” for the week consisted of about 1 hour of easy bike spinning and 2-4 miles of easy walking each day, and several trips to the newly reopened gym to work my legs and my good arm. It’s frustrating to be so constrained when I feel pretty good, but it would be really stupid to do too much too soon and have to restart the bone healing from the beginning. I won't try to start jogging again until I get the go-ahead from the orthopedist.

I'm happy to read about everyone else's progress and I hope to have something more promising to post two weeks from now!

100 days down, 265 to go:

april 4-april 10

sun: 3

mon: 3 (with h.s. team)

tue: 3

wed: 3 (with h.s. team)

thu: 3 miles with h.s. team

fri: 3 (trail sunrise run up to mt. thom overlooking san fernando valley and l.a. basin--3 miles up, 3 mile walk back down)

sat: 3

a rough week for me as hip pain migrated down to my knee; only minor swelling and discomfort, so i dialed it down but kept the streak alive. it’s getting better, so i’ll try a track workout this week and see how it responds, but i’ll keep the volume down.

the highlight of the week was friday’s sunrise trail run with calcoast teammate steve brumwell and former world junior cross country champ bobby thomas (he beat jose luis gonzalez and john treacy in 1975!)--three san fernando valley boys--chasing the sunrise up the iconic mt. thom peak. this was a semi-regular run for these dudes, both of whom trained with mark covert back in the 70s at valley junior college, but the first time for me--strange since this is a trail i could see from virtually anywhere in the valley during my formative years of running…

carpe crepusculum--or for this week, carpe aurora,

cush

Cavorty,

I would assume you have sufficient cardiovascular development where there is marginal benefit from pure aerobic running, save weight control. In my opinion, tempos should be emphasized at your age, with prudent use of intervals and repetitions to polish up prior to key races. That said, if one’s constitution was sturdy enough to maintain all the key elements of training for a younger person, that would be ideal. The population that can do that, as a percentage, appears to be small. Therefore most of us are back to finding some balance, less weight bearing activity, and more recovery time.

Igy

Hi Cavorty,

I cannot give advice because I am no coach. There are very experienced coaches around here. From my perspective, 80 min is long enough because I do not want to deplete me completely. It takes too long to replenish my glycogen if fully depleted. 40 miles seems enough for me because strength, drills, and fast running is no mileage. I am wondering: Do you race 5k at LT pace? And why are your easy runs regularly so fast?

Cheers

This was a feel-good week:

Mo off

Tu 1 h drills and jumps uphill

We 7 miles easy

Th 3x1600m in 6:20 min/mile with 400m walk

Fr 7 miles easy

Sa 10x100m with slow walk back

Su 80 min recovery

No niggles, no straining. Saturday was fun. On the track in spikes (yippie). Goal time was 15.0s (flying start) for starting the track season. Runs were smoothly and under good control. Number 5 was test to increase cadence resulting in 14.0s. Felt a bit un-coordinated. Need also to increase "the force into the ground". Since I am training without purpose, I am in no rush to build this up😀. The process is my joy.

Have a good week!

Cavorty,

You asked about 40 mpw to make 5K under 20 min, and IMHO it is enough. At least it works with me, and I am only a year younger than you are. And you definitely have a higher potential than me: you wrote that your HR was about 120 at the pace 7.33-7.37 for 5 miles, which is some 3-4 sec faster than I did today. Also your HR range is wider than mine (40-165 vs. 45-162).

After I joined the 60+ club my target is the same as yours: to stay under 20 min for 5K. So far, I succeeded. Of course all this is quite individual, but I never did 90 min long since that (60-65 min only, and not every week). Prefer to have 1 interval and 1 tempo or CV workout per week.

So, I have no doubt you will be quite under 20 or even 19.30 this summer and fall, just remain injury-free.

Igy,

Your house looks so nice (the picture you posted here), my congrats with successful end of your project!

Amkelly,

good to know you started biking. Hope your shoulder is getting better and you receive the “go ahead” from the doctor quite soon.

Socalcush,

sad news about your hip. I admire your results so much and wish you recover quickly.

Good week to all!

Thank you very much Orient. God willing, I will be here until the end of my time. I am on the south side now, so quite a bit of sun exposure, but less ladder time from here. I tackled the hardest first, so easier from here.

Igy

Thanks. Some of the runs are definitely primarily for burning calories.

It's definitely difficult to touch all elements in a short period. I've been doing the slightly faster stuff with relatively short recoveries as floats (7:30-7:50 type pace) so they are more like LT runs.

Seems like I can run virtually every day. Day after the longer runs is pretty slow, sometimes 8:30ish.

Genetically I'm a slow sprinter (relatively high percentage fast twitch) with a big V02 max, and I clear lactate very quickly, so I get good value out of reps. I can recall in my mid-50s racing 4 miles in 23:20 and then the next weekend doing 4 on the track made up of 200m in 40 sec, 200m in 50 sec, and running 24:00, so only 10 seconds per miler slower.

Hi. I did used to do 1 hour 40 three or four times in a build up, but that would take some recovery from these days. I'd probably to up to 10 miles a few times this time.

I don't have much idea what I'd race 5k at now, it's coming up for 2 years since I raced. I would expect to run 5k a fair bit faster than LT - I'm more a shorter distance runner (3000m would probably be my best distance, and my times get comparatively worse as I go up in distance).

I think I'd race at faster than LT now - the first warm down mile after the three miles at tempo yesterday was 7:05, and then another 1.6 at 7:37 so the 6:30 pace for the tempo was obviously not race pace.

The steady/recovery runs just seem to end up quick, not particularly aiming for any pace, just what seems comfortable. Unless I'm tired, it's just a gear I seem to end up in, even if I start a bit slower. I probably should try and slow them down, but seems awkward to run at say 8:30 unless I'm tired. I've probably got a cardio vascular system that is ahead of my muscular-skeletal one - as around 120 HR average I end up with near 7:30 pace. So I'm running recovery/steady runs at about the right pace cardio wise.

I also probably don't need a lot of real recovery runs, as the 'hard' sessions aren't really super hard - I'm still about 15 beats off max.

Cavorty, I am about a year younger and still believe in long runs. 1:30 to 2:00 for 5K to half marathon training, getting up to 2:00 to 3:00 for marathon. 40 miles a week is sufficient for a decent 5K. A couple other thoughts. Your HR quite low for the paces you run. I haven't used an HRM for several years, but would probably be 120 at 8 min+ pace, 125-140 at sub 8, and max +/-160, and LT about 150? You run a fair amount faster than I do on average (my weekly average is 8:00-8:10, but at 5200-6500' elevation for the most part, at sea level would be about 7:50 to 8). And your LT at 6:30 pace and you are wondering about breaking 20? More like 19+/- 20 sec.

Week here went pretty well. I ran 56 miles (6 days) plus had three short cycle workouts out 20-25 minutes. So like 8:30 for the week if my numbers add up correctly.

Covid II shot on Tuesday so I took Wednesday off and ran easy Thursday and Friday. Had a good sharpener workout on Tuesday (6X 600 with 45 sec. recovery, then 2X 300 in spikes, followed by a 200 and a 100). Saturday had a terrible warm up, but on my last pick up felt decent, and did 3X 1 mile and 1/2 mile LT (short recovery) at 6:15 pace at Sloan's Lake in NW Denver. That may have been best WO since fall of 2019. Long run today (2:15, in some windy weather). Racing a half marathon next weekend, and hope that it doesn't snow that day, nor be super windy. But springtime in the Rockies, you never know what you'll get.

Been "running" 9 months now. I'm on track for 50 miles this week again after cutting that in half last week after my Moderna Covid shot. Slow easy miles on a trail along the river for the most part. I hope to carry on another month like this then add more distance. I'll never be fast, but little by little it is getting easier and quicker. It also keeps me clean. I know that if I buy a bottle of whiskey my running will be horrible the next day.

Cavorty, You asked if 40mpw is enough for a sub 20:00 Done properly I think yes even for us older folks. Just have to have the right balance of quality and rest.

I hit 51+ miles for the week (59th week in a row of 50+) and am pretty sure if the course was right I am in right around 20:10-20:15 shape. But am run a little more as I am laying the base for some longer races later in the year.

My week:

Well, On Friday I was finally able to get my Johnson & Johnson vaccine. Some chills, a dull temporal headache, and a bit of 'flatness' came as part of the package yesterday and early Saturday morning.

I should have known better, but on Saturday we went ahead and drove to a tiny 5Km race (that I had previously signed up for) in Bowling Green Ohio. I needed a 'rust buster' before a target race in two week. I trained through it - no taper.

Much much to my surprise at age 64+ y/o I 'won' the race overall. I didn't see that coming! Now this has to be tempered by the fact that it was a tiny race with fewer than 100 people The race course turned out to be about 200 meters long, due to a signage error at the wrong corner. And was basically a solo run. But as rust-buster it worked. So it was an honest 20:25-20:30 effort for the first race since last October. A win is a win is a win.

Target race with 1,500 in two weeks....

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Not Done Just yet is my regular registered posting name on this thread