50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Mike Lundgren wrote:

... Walking is slower, but does allow me to look and listen to all around me more, and is relaxing, .... :)

Like it. It is getting spring and a lot in nature to look at and listen to.

BR

Greetings to all here!

Just ran across this forum and was delighted to read many posts from gentlemen showing great form, including this one!

I wonder if anybody could comment/advise on the issue addressed below and maybe share one’s own experience (especially those who live in northern areas).

In late autumn 2020 I found myself with some painful injuries (Achilles tendon, knee, hip) and decided to give a long winter rest for my poor legs. Planned to run slow two days a week only, while making the rest volume by (cross-country) skiing. However, this winter was quite cruel in my area as far as running was concerned but good for skiing – plenty of snow and frost. As a result, I took out my skis in early December and did not run at all until end Feb. when I just forced myself to put on running shoes and return to the initial plan with two workouts a week (still skiing 4 other days).

I was sure that with solid integrated basis on the snow (5-6 hours of good ski work a week on average throughout nearly 3 months) I could quickly translate it into a good running shape in spring, as I used to do for many years when I did not stop running totally in winter. But I was completely wrong, and this year it goes very slow and hard. When I compare my records of March ’20 with current workouts I see that, e.g. intervals 4-5 x 1000 m with 2-3 min jogging in between are now some 6-7 sec slower (4.02-4.04 vs. 3.56-3.58 min/km).

So, I wonder if anybody was in a similar situation with switching from running to other sports (not skiing only, but maybe cycling, skating, etc) for several months, and how long did it take then to get back to a “regular shape”.

P.S. About myself: M63, 5’6”, 138 lbs. In the youth was fond of orienteering, but never considered myself as a runner because it was enough to make 5K in about 15.00 and half-marathon in 1 hr 10 min to compete at a national level in this kind of sport. Stopped in early 80’s (too much work, got married, etc.), and since that was running for pleasure only in the forest. However, “advocating old-school” used to do intervals once a week (5-6 x 1000-1200 m), one tempo (5-7 km near anaerobic threshold) and either one (relatively) long or fartlek. Other 3 days depend on the mood and may vary a lot, just to stay within 60-70 km/week excl. winter. 2020 bests were 19.35 for 5k on the road and 40.50 for 10k cross-country in the forest.

Orient,

Welcome. I would consider the time difference insignificant, and very good for a 63 year old. On skiing, I am assuming cross country, Coyote Montane is a regular in that sport during winter months, and a top world masters. We also have a lady in our training group that cross country skis throughout winter and is one of the top nationally. It appears based on your performance, and the others mentioned, you are in good company.

Igy

Hi Orient. Great that you were able to mix in cross country skiing over the winter. While there are good fitness benefits that transfer from skiing to running it usually does not happen overnight. I found that when skiing through the winter running a little bit a few times a week helps some with the transition, but even then ramping up again would still be a challenge.

Just add a day or so of running each week, keeping it easy. After that I would need 3-4 weeks at the 40-50 mile/week range to start feeling better. Might mix in a tempo run and set of strides every week, before incorporating workouts. So if season more or less would end in March I wouldn't be feeling all that good running-wise for another 6-8 weeks.

WMA thinks the WRs are soft in the older age groups so they are coming out with new tables . The new tables cut 2 to 3 percent off the older age grades but cut about 1 percent off the younger groups.

Earl Fee set the M65 800 of 2:14 over 25 years ago . Earl is in a league of his own. This is not a soft WR.

I still use the standards from 1996 which is the year I turned 40 for consistent tracking of how I am "progressing"

Entertaining 800 form of the dude who won reminds me of RB . A guy fighting for 3rd falls just short of the finish.

https://youtu.be/tQvfFVICWFE

Igy, Coyote Montane:

Thanks a lot for your warm welcome.

Indeed, 6-8 weeks appears to be realistic time to be back on track. It also depends on the time when warm weather arrives allowing for running in “summer suit”. Really fed up of being dressed in 2-3 layers.

Have just registered for the first competition on 24 April, will select either 5 кm or 10 km on road depending on how I will feel.

Best to all!

86 days down, 279 to go:

march trail run in the books, with 86 days of 2021 down and 279 to go. slept in, so a fairly warm and green afternoon run up bommer canyon in irvine; while looping around on a trail i’ve not yet traveled, i encountered a gate closing the trail about 90 minutes in. there was no turning back, for it would have turned into a 3 hour tour (...a 3 hour tooouuur…), so i hopped the gate and enjoyed nearly 3 miles of hawks and lizards my only companions. my outstandingly sub-par trail running skills saw me averaging a tepid sub-10 minute mile pace for the run...

March 21-27

sun: 8 (3 miles @ 5:33 pace)

mon: 6 (with h.s. team)

tue: am--5: 1x1200 (79 pace, 3:58), 2x800 (2:40/2:44), 2x400 (75/73)--pacing female

teammate trying to break 5 in the mile

pm--2 (with h.s. team)

pm, pt. 2: 6: 1x1200 (3:45), 2x800 (2:40/2:30), 1x400 (73--opted out of what should have been 3 more 400s)--bit off more than i can chew with initial 1200, but sometimes you must take some chances...

wed: 4 (with h.s. team)

thu: am--4

pm pt 1--3 miles with h.s. team

pm pt 2--10 (5x2k repeats w/2 minutes rest: 6:10@mile/5:50/5:47/5:47/5:50)

fri: 5

sat: 13 (hilly trails in 2:01)

after today's run, hope to enjoy my bruins' continued march madness run...

carpe crepusculum,

cush

Once things start to go downhill, they go in a hurry.

Still unable to run, I set out Wednesday morning for a long, fast walk. 7.5 miles in, I suddenly tripped on lord-knows-what and didn’t bounce like cush did, but instead landed hard on my left arm. Immediately I knew I was in big trouble because I couldn’t move my arm and it felt like my shoulder was in the wrong place. I walked very carefully the 1.5 miles home and my husband drove me to the ER. By the time I got there the pain was severe despite the drugs they gave me, and I sat in a chair crying until they mercifully sedated me and the doc manipulated the humeral head back into the socket. I went home with my arm in a sling and a prescription for more narcotics, which I didn’t fill. The arm is swollen and massively bruised, but doesn’t hurt as long as I don’t move it much. The “before” x-ray is really scary looking--the head of the humerus was about three inches away from the socket. There is also a small fracture of the head of the humerus, and I need a competent orthopedist’s advice on whether any further treatment is needed and when I can start using the arm again. I have an appointment on Thursday.

So now I can’t run because of my pulled hip muscle, can’t ride a bike because I have only one arm, and am even spooked about walking lest I fall down and get hurt again. I have started to do a little walking, carefully, at a slow pace. I’ve also started riding the bike trainer a little, but I discovered that mounting and dismounting from the trainer is really hard to do with just one arm. This is all very discouraging.

That's my tale of woe. I hope your weeks went better.

Socal: nice trail run, “hawks and lizards” I’m imagining the song by America ‘Horse with no name’ playing during that adventure.

Amkelley: Holy Cow! So sorry for your continued woes. It’s got to get better.

Orient: Welcome!

Tue = 4 miles greenway with 3 @ 8:09 pace

Thr = 4 miles easy greenway with 3 @ 9:28 pace

Sat = 4 miles greenway with 3 @ 7:54 pace

Sun = 4 miles easy new greenway with 3 @ 9:30 pace

Great week. Sat was my first sub 8 training run since Aug 4th of last year.

Looks like I have a race available April 24th. With any luck, I’ll have one in May as well. It’s nice to have something to look forward to.

I’ll continue to use my “one taco short of a combo plate” training. Works for me.

Make it a good week.

that sounds brutal amkelley--i'm fortunately no worse for wear from last week, other than now as i run i do note places--like on the trail i ran yesterday--where it would be bad to fall. it's no fun when on top of the injuries that we know are part of the game, we have to worry about the ground randomly leaping up and attacking us. here's hoping for your quick recovery,

cush

Sorry to hear that amkelley. That has to be frustrating.

Steady consistency cush. In my early 50s when I started running again I would head out for three hour runs in the Boise foothills. No particular goal other than put time on my legs. I think it is useful way to build endurance.

As for myself, still on my painting project. Right at the half way point (two sides), but probably past 60% time wise. So a couple of weeks to go. Interesting the comments you get from people in the neighborhood. From “looks good” to “ hope your wife has 911 on speed dial.” The last comment is just what you want to hear as you are painting second story fascia.

I need to monitor my ladder time against exercise. Early in the week I started training again. Pretty light to begin with. Three days walking 2 miles and one day two miles walking/running. I plan to add a couple of mikes this week.

Have a good week.

Igy

amkelley wrote:

Once things start to go downhill, they go in a hurry....This is all very discouraging.

Hold my beer... I'm pretty devastated myself right now too.

I hit my goal of 37 miles this week. And my week went very well up until 9.44 miles into my 10 mile run on Saturday. After running miles 6-7-8 effortlessly at 7:30-40 pace 100% painfree, I felt a slight achilles pain around 9 miles. Stopped & stretched and started running easily. No big deal. I'm feeling good and running well. Just finish the run and I've got a planned day off Sunday. There was no indication how bad this would turn in 3 minutes. I felt something in my achilles snap at 9.44 miles. Very painful 3-4" up from my heel bone. It almost dropped me. I walked the last 1/2 mile home gingerly but it really didn't hurt; no real pain as I sit here. But I can't stand on my toes. Running would be impossible. I can feel there's something really wrong. Its up higher than before. Its definitely in the tendon not insertional on the heel bone where my previous issues were. But It must be related. I was literally thinking just a few minutes before this happened, I'm finally back to good! Running easily at 7:30 pace. Painfree! Boy how things can suddenly turn bad with no notice...

I'm back in my boot now. What else is there to do? I'll make an appt with my Dr first thing in the morning. I'm hoping its nothing but I've got a feeling its bad.

From my log:

Mon: 6.02 Miles in 49:52 [8:17 per mile] 5.5 mile run w/4x25 sec post run strides. Avg 6:13

833,824,818,810,818 HR129

Tue: 5.14 Miles in 41:57 [8:09 per mile]

Wed: 6 Miles in 47:35 [7:55 per mile] 815,759,800,806,749,724 HR 147

Thu: 4.1 Miles in 39:18 [9:35 per mile] Worked to keep the HR below 130! 945,928,932,938

Happy with my weigh-in at 172.8

Fri: 6.19 Miles in 50:49 [8:12 per mile] Felt ok tonite! Kept it steady without much effort. 830,811,811,811,807,811 Hope I can have a decent 10 tomorrow.

Sat: 9.44 Miles in 1:14:06 [7:50 per mile]Good run to close out the week. 820,800,757,754,754,746,740,735,735,745 (.44)

Sun: Off

Guess I'll wait to see what Dr Simons has to say before getting too down. I just don't know what to think right now.

Have a good run,

Dave

First race in two years after prostate cancer in 2019, then training only in 2020.

I should have realized that a race location called “ Fountain HILLS “ would have some ... hills.

It never occurred to me. Ha

They started us off one at a time. I was first.

They took my temperature then I was pointed in the right direction but failed to run through the starting mats and was called back much to the amusement of the waiting runners.. it’s been awhile...Got passed for the first time about a quarter mile into the first hill..

But felt fit considering.

Roller coaster hills. Felt good about at least racing. Last big downhill I even went under 8 minutes!!

42:21.. first in my age group. A guy over 70 went 38!

Women’s 55-59 was dynamite.. one of them passed me holding an iPod!!!

Oh well, I rejoined the club. I volunteered for clean up in our summer series which starts in mid-May

I feel guilty about it but I just don’t want to get out in public anymore so won’t RD or anything dealing with the public. I’ll do anything shirt of that though .. I was an RD for 10 years.. I didn’t like it then but made myself do it.

Great to finally comeback.. made my day.

sorry to hear it, amkelley and racerdb; both sound really frustrating.

uneventful week on my end of nursing hamstring back (I hope) to 100% gradually -- it's getting really nice around here as cherry blossoms near peak and mild weather starts to be consistent.

M 30:00

Tu 1:00

W 1:05 with drills and strides

Th 40:00

F 50:00

Sa 1:10

Su 1:30

have a great week,

Dave

Amkelly, what a sad news… Hold on, I wish you recover soon!

Socal, your capabilities look terrific, I am quite impressed.

As for the work done throughout the week, here are my two cents (note, here week starts on Mon. and ends on Sun.):

Mon = off (very late arrival from work)

Tue = ski 13 km (8 mi), equivalent* to 11 km (7 mi) running

Wed = run 10 km (6 mi), intervals 5x1000 m at pace 4.02 – 4.04 min/km (6.30-6.33 min/mi)

Thu = easy run 8 km (5 mi)

Fri = ski 11.5 km, equivalent to 11 km (7 mi) running

Sat. = run 9 km (6- mi) ending with 5K tempo in 20.57 (average pace 6.45 min/mi)

Sun. = ski 17.5 km easy, equivalent to 16 km (10 mi) running

Subtotal running equivalent c.a. 64 km or 40 mi.

* ski-to-run equivalent is calculated through the heart rate common ground. For example, if my HR while skiing at 4 min/km is the same as while running at 4’30”/km, the coefficient is 0.89, and 11.2 "ski km" are equivalent to 10 "run km". This coef. varies a lot depending on the ski track.

Workload breakdown structure: I=8%, T=10%, UA=12%, MA=6%,

where

“I” stands for Intensive (or Intervals) zone with HR range 148-156, i.e. above LTHR (which I currently estimate as 144-146),

“T” stands for Transition (or near Threshold) zone with HR 140-148,

“UA” stands for Upper Aerobic zone with HR 132-140,

“MA” stands for Mid Aerobic zone with HR 124-132,

All the rest is “easy”, below aerobic threshold.

A (hopefully small) trouble occurred to me these days, too. During the Sat. tempo (which was supposed to be 6 km), in spite of a good warm-up, as soon as I passed the 5 km mark my right calf shot. I gave up immediately, made a showball and while walking back home made a few stops applying it to the hurting area. Continued with ice for the rest of the day. Today’s skiing went well though, but this muscle is not actually involved while skiing. Looking forward with a serious concern now: will rest tomorrow and see on Tue.

AMK and RacerDB hoping things get better . AMK maybe it is time to get that lap pool? DB you might want to check out Dr. Keith Barr on tendons. His stuff is pretty interesting.

2 on 2 off just going to keep it in easy mode for awhile

typical 2 on in the sand:

2 hours 3x walk 20 run 20 toss in a couple of 400s 86 84

80 minutes 2x walk 20 run 20

about the only real goal is sub 6 at 65 in 5 months otherwise I just want to stay injury free and enjoy running.

Racerdb,

Very sorry to read your story. Quite a well-known situation for me. Hope you applied ice immediately and continue doing that for two days. Until the doctor prescribes the best algorithm, try to keep your leg a little bit up while sitting or lying in bed. Use elastic roller for immobilization.

Good luck!

AMKelly and RacerDB, best wishes on a speedy recovery to you both. I am also trying to get back into decent running shape, and hope to do a half marathon later this year....I have no concern about being able to do this, unless I run into injuries along the way. I have ripped an achilles in the past and know how painful that can be. The most important step is to stay positive though.

For myself, I signed up for a half marathon in Sept. I've done one before (2019). My goal is to break 2hrs. I'm coming along, just did my first 8k run in about 12 months. Really happy with the way it went.

All the best to everyone trying to keep it going after 50!!

Good race Mr. Lee.

That’s tough Racerdb; like amkelley, you have really worked hard to get better. Its not much consolation, but the effort to improve is admirable.

Igy