This thread was deleted by a volunteer moderator. I certainly don't want a thread this big deleted so I've restored. THat being said, this thread has served it's purpose. I've closed it to new posts.
We have a new 2024 vaccine thread here. New people don't need to try to wade through 20,000 posts to figure out what is going on.
How many of the hospitalized are in there due to Covid, as opposed to being in the hospital for some other reason and testing positive for Covid.
For a while the Boston Herald began making the distinction and typically @ 70% of the "Covid hospitalizations" were hospitalized for some reason other than Covid.
For the past two weeks we are being told of rising cases, positivity rates, and hospitalizations, and the distinction noted above has been dropped.
Good point. The title says “Patients with Covid-19 Treated in Hospital System.”
So that could very well be the same scenario you described. ‘With’ vs Treated For.
There has not been a single piece of credible evidence posted in the last 88 pages to suggests vaccines are not safe and effective.
The vaccines were effective with alpha and delta, but are something has changed. The following analysis shows that vaccinated have LESS protection against Omicron than the unvaccinated!
How is that possible? ...unless it's a weakened immune system (ADE), as some vaccine skeptics are claiming?
Here's the data from an analysis of cases in Canada from 31Jan22 to 27Feb22. The first chart shows the estimated population in each vaccination category by week. As you can see, the unvaxxed, vaxxed, and boosted cohorts are reasonably similar in population.
The second chart shows cases by category by week. For the vaccine to be effective, you would expect the cases to be higher in the unvaccinated cohort, but they are not. For the vaccine to be neutral, you would expect each cohort to be about the same, but they are not. The unvaxxed cohort is lower... much lower. How is that possible? Serious question... how is that possible? I'm open to an explanation.
The third link is for the article from which I extracted these charts.
Terrifying Gov't Data Emerging from Canada Suggests the Triple Vaccinated Have Developed AIDS; Likelihood of Dying from COVID is 5.1x Greater Than Unvaccinated
Well Fisky your post is astutely interesting because I've proposed in the past that people who get multiple booster shots could develop a defunct immune system the equivalent of an HIV patient. That is because in order to function well and even get stronger, your immune system needs exposure and practice fighting off viruses. These drugs/vaccines totally nullify that. But people just automatically eat up the propoganda perpetuated by proven liars, frauds and self interested individuals because they're impressionable and fear mongered. It's time to wake up.
Fisky, it'd be interesting to see these data with regard to hospitalizations. To be fair, few are arguing that the vaccine is able to significantly ward off cases any longer, but that it is effective in preventing hospitalization and death. Case numbers have some value, but aren't nearly as informative as they were 12-24 months ago.
To Harambe's repeated point that vaccines are "effective," this should be clarified in which contexts it's effective or modified to "somewhat effective." They unequivocally provide something to immunologically naive individuals, but the line hasn't changed since the beginning of 2021 when "effective" meant, preventing infection.
Obviously, previous infection also significantly benefits individuals when facing future risk. There aren't that many people left that are truly immunologically naive. These people face the greatest risk, but don't represent a very large chunk of the pie.
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So many many names can belong to a registered account
The vaccines were effective with alpha and delta, but are something has changed. The following analysis shows that vaccinated have LESS protection against Omicron than the unvaccinated!
How is that possible? ...unless it's a weakened immune system (ADE), as some vaccine skeptics are claiming?
Here's the data from an analysis of cases in Canada from 31Jan22 to 27Feb22. The first chart shows the estimated population in each vaccination category by week. As you can see, the unvaxxed, vaxxed, and boosted cohorts are reasonably similar in population.
The second chart shows cases by category by week. For the vaccine to be effective, you would expect the cases to be higher in the unvaccinated cohort, but they are not. For the vaccine to be neutral, you would expect each cohort to be about the same, but they are not. The unvaxxed cohort is lower... much lower. How is that possible? Serious question... how is that possible? I'm open to an explanation.
The third link is for the article from which I extracted these charts.
It means that unvaccinated caught COVID-19 earlier, with more deadly variants It is why much more unvaccinated have died. It also means that their immune response is broader, it protects better against Omicron.
Vaccinated escaped deadly variants, or had less severe symptoms. Much less deaths among vaccinated. Their immunity, targeting only specific elements of specific virus provides less protection against Omicron.
Unvaccinated developed natural immunity with deadly variants.
Vaccinated are developing natural immunity with mild variant.
In the end, they all end with natural immunity, only much more unvaccinated die of COVID-19.
1. They’ve never isolated “COVID”. So what is the PCR testing for? Didn’t they admit the PCR test is not meant to be diagnostic?
2. Why are they still saying “cases are up” when people aren’t sick? I live in an area of mostly programmed old people and I’m not seeing any sign of illness. Just fear based paranoia which is a sickness. 3. Let’s say you are part of the unfortunate group who has bought into this farce. My family in another state are all believing this non virus and they claim to be educated. But for those of you still believing what puppets are telling you, how many times do you have to be lied to to get it? How does a “vaccine” prevent serious hospitalization ? that’s a lie. They need to come clean and pull this drug immediately. That fraud Fauci admitted lockdowns are done to get people vaccinated. Did you guys miss that?
If fifa said it then it must be in the public domain,can you show where fifa have ever said this?
Nope
I don’t need to. I can simply watch the video. Are you blind?
So what you're really saying is,some anti vax website says FIFA say lots of footballers have died because of the vaccine,they offer no proof FIFA have said that,you offer no proof FIFA have ever said that,and you wonder why the majority of the world laughs at you.
There has not been a single piece of credible evidence posted in the last 88 pages to suggests vaccines are not safe and effective.
The vaccines were effective with alpha and delta, but are something has changed. The following analysis shows that vaccinated have LESS protection against Omicron than the unvaccinated!
How is that possible? ...unless it's a weakened immune system (ADE), as some vaccine skeptics are claiming?
Here's the data from an analysis of cases in Canada from 31Jan22 to 27Feb22. The first chart shows the estimated population in each vaccination category by week. As you can see, the unvaxxed, vaxxed, and boosted cohorts are reasonably similar in population.
The second chart shows cases by category by week. For the vaccine to be effective, you would expect the cases to be higher in the unvaccinated cohort, but they are not. For the vaccine to be neutral, you would expect each cohort to be about the same, but they are not. The unvaxxed cohort is lower... much lower. How is that possible? Serious question... how is that possible? I'm open to an explanation.
The third link is for the article from which I extracted these charts.
Great DATA here, Mr fisky. It aligns with the data I’ve been posting here for months from one of the largest hospital systems in MI.
Currently-
Hospitalized: 33 Unvax / 36 Vax (17 Boosted!)
ICU: 2 Unvax / 2 Vax (1 Boosted)
Ventilator: 0
The vaccine is clearly becoming less and less effective over time (w/ variants and more of the population having immunity). Natural immunity from infection is - and has always been, and always will be - the best vaccine there is. A more mild virus (which is the typical evolution) is great news!
Now if we can just stop these POS maniacs from funding extremely dangerous Gain of Function testing, maybe the world wouldn’t have to suffer through something like this again.
Kim Iversen details Bill Gates' latest comments on the COVID-19 pandemic.About Rising: Rising is a weekday morning show with bipartisan hosts that breaks the...
The vaccines were effective with alpha and delta, but are something has changed. The following analysis shows that vaccinated have LESS protection against Omicron than the unvaccinated!
How is that possible? ...unless it's a weakened immune system (ADE), as some vaccine skeptics are claiming?
It's widely recognized that the vaccine effectiveness against a positive test result (a "case") since the emergence of the omicron variant is fairly low. The vaccines have shown continued effectiveness against the most severe outcomes as measured by hospitalization and ICU admissions when adjusted for age and vaccine status.
This figure suggests that we'd expect to see case rate in the vaccinated running about 70% that of the unvaccinated, while your link would suggest the vaccinated are somewhat higher. The difference is probably down to a few things.
1) Your source appears to be using full population case and vaccination rates while I expect my source (Ontario Covid-19 Science Table) is a composite with age-grouped case and vaccine rates.
2) Positivity rates (positive tests per test) in Canada are high (about 20%) which suggests that there isn't a high level of screening tests going on which is to say the true case rates are probably significantly higher than the reported rates. Given that covid/covid vaccine skeptics are probably less likely to seek a test, they are likely more under reported than the vaccinated cohort.
3) The emergence of rapid home test kits means that a lot of testing is probably not reported in the official case statistics.
The net is that case rates at this point in the pandemic are not a great metric for evaluating vaccine effectiveness or potential downside.
The vaccines were effective with alpha and delta, but are something has changed. The following analysis shows that vaccinated have LESS protection against Omicron than the unvaccinated!
How is that possible? ...unless it's a weakened immune system (ADE), as some vaccine skeptics are claiming?
Here's the data from an analysis of cases in Canada from 31Jan22 to 27Feb22. The first chart shows the estimated population in each vaccination category by week. As you can see, the unvaxxed, vaxxed, and boosted cohorts are reasonably similar in population.
The second chart shows cases by category by week. For the vaccine to be effective, you would expect the cases to be higher in the unvaccinated cohort, but they are not. For the vaccine to be neutral, you would expect each cohort to be about the same, but they are not. The unvaxxed cohort is lower... much lower. How is that possible? Serious question... how is that possible? I'm open to an explanation.
The third link is for the article from which I extracted these charts.
It means that unvaccinated caught COVID-19 earlier, with more deadly variants It is why much more unvaccinated have died. It also means that their immune response is broader, it protects better against Omicron.
Vaccinated escaped deadly variants, or had less severe symptoms. Much less deaths among vaccinated. Their immunity, targeting only specific elements of specific virus provides less protection against Omicron.
Unvaccinated developed natural immunity with deadly variants.
Vaccinated are developing natural immunity with mild variant.
In the end, they all end with natural immunity, only much more unvaccinated die of COVID-19.
Huh?
Current variants are quite mild. Not deadly.
There is zero evidence that the Jab lessens severity. Just the latest claim after the claim that the Jab would prevent transmission was exposed for the lie that it is.
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So many many names can belong to a registered account
It means that unvaccinated caught COVID-19 earlier, with more deadly variants It is why much more unvaccinated have died. It also means that their immune response is broader, it protects better against Omicron.
Vaccinated escaped deadly variants, or had less severe symptoms. Much less deaths among vaccinated. Their immunity, targeting only specific elements of specific virus provides less protection against Omicron.
Unvaccinated developed natural immunity with deadly variants.
Vaccinated are developing natural immunity with mild variant.
In the end, they all end with natural immunity, only much more unvaccinated die of COVID-19.
Huh?
Current variants are quite mild. Not deadly.
There is zero evidence that the Jab lessens severity. Just the latest claim after the claim that the Jab would prevent transmission was exposed for the lie that it is.
Huh, yes, it is pretty easy
Regarding current variants, it is exactly what I've said. Vaccinated are developing natural immunity by catching current, mild variants. No matter how mild, some people will still die from it. Much more vaccinated are infected with current variants, that is why there are more vaccinated deaths than unvaccinated from current variants.
If you take a look at total No of cases, they are close to each other, but total number of deaths is much greater for unvaccinated. It is because they caught earlier variants, which were harder to spread, but more deadly. Those who caught it early and survived, are immune to current variants.
Vaccinated were protected from more deadly variants, but are not immune to current ones. That is why they are getting it and dying from it, but in much lesser numbers than vaccinated were dying from early variants.
The proof that vaccine lessens severity of response is not only in the total number of deaths, but also, early on, there were much less cases than there are today, never the less, hospitals were breaking full, people dying in bulks. Ever since mass vaccination took over, pressure on hospitals went down.
The vaccines were effective with alpha and delta, but are something has changed. The following analysis shows that vaccinated have LESS protection against Omicron than the unvaccinated!
How is that possible? ...unless it's a weakened immune system (ADE), as some vaccine skeptics are claiming?
It's widely recognized that the vaccine effectiveness against a positive test result (a "case") since the emergence of the omicron variant is fairly low. The vaccines have shown continued effectiveness against the most severe outcomes as measured by hospitalization and ICU admissions when adjusted for age and vaccine status.
This figure suggests that we'd expect to see case rate in the vaccinated running about 70% that of the unvaccinated, while your link would suggest the vaccinated are somewhat higher. The difference is probably down to a few things.
1) Your source appears to be using full population case and vaccination rates while I expect my source (Ontario Covid-19 Science Table) is a composite with age-grouped case and vaccine rates.
2) Positivity rates (positive tests per test) in Canada are high (about 20%) which suggests that there isn't a high level of screening tests going on which is to say the true case rates are probably significantly higher than the reported rates. Given that covid/covid vaccine skeptics are probably less likely to seek a test, they are likely more under reported than the vaccinated cohort.
3) The emergence of rapid home test kits means that a lot of testing is probably not reported in the official case statistics.
The net is that case rates at this point in the pandemic are not a great metric for evaluating vaccine effectiveness or potential downside.
Just to update a couple of the graphs I've shown previously.
This shows the weekly reported Covid-19 as a percentage of all deaths by age group. One observation is that in the most recently reported weeks people that were dying were mostly dying of something other than Covid, which is why reducing mitigation measures make sense and, with luck will fade away as a major public health concern. The other observation is that, relatively speaking, it was the middle age groups that got clobbered during the Delta and Omicron waves, consistent with proportionately lower vaccination rates with the younger adult cohorts.
This shows the high level of correlation between registered Covid deaths and weekly excess deaths refuting the notion that the Covid death counts were materially over reported or misreported deaths "that were going to occur anyway".
Just to update a couple of the graphs I've shown previously.
This shows the weekly reported Covid-19 as a percentage of all deaths by age group. One observation is that in the most recently reported weeks people that were dying were mostly dying of something other than Covid, which is why reducing mitigation measures make sense and, with luck will fade away as a major public health concern. The other observation is that, relatively speaking, it was the middle age groups that got clobbered during the Delta and Omicron waves, consistent with proportionately lower vaccination rates with the younger adult cohorts.
This shows the high level of correlation between registered Covid deaths and weekly excess deaths refuting the notion that the Covid death counts were materially over reported or misreported deaths "that were going to occur anyway".
All nice, COVID deaths are real and all. However, I think it is missing the point of the question.
They are pointing to data, showing that at the moment ratio is 3:2 (50% more COVID-19 deaths within unvaccinated), but 4 months ago the difference was 100%, ratio 2:1.
Obviously, since we will all die and since it looks like there will be more vaccinated people then unvaccinated, eventually, the ratio will turn over, there will be more vaccinated deaths. Before it turns over, at some point ratio will be 1:1. There must be some expected time to reach 1:1.
The question is, will 1:1 be reached earlier then expected, i.e. will ratio switch over in time shorter, or equal to time expected to reach 1:1?
Back from my Lenten hiatus. Sad to see this thread is still going, as Omicron has essentially rendered vaccination meaningless. The UK stopped releasing tabular data after week 13, likely because the data no longer backed up the idea that vaccines were relevant. In the week 13 report, case rates were 3-5 times higher among boosted adults than among the unvaccinated. Hospitalization rates were similar and death rates were similar. Only 7.9% of deaths in the week 13 report were unvaccinated (and over 75% were boosted). People on the left are still trying to raise alarms about the BA.2 subvariant, but the only ones who seem to be getting sick with that are the boosted. Life seems to have mostly gotten back to normal where I live, and I recommend that everyone go back to living it. Hope everyone had a Happy Easter and got in a good run.
Fisky, it'd be interesting to see these data with regard to hospitalizations. To be fair, few are arguing that the vaccine is able to significantly ward off cases any longer, but that it is effective in preventing hospitalization and death. Case numbers have some value, but aren't nearly as informative as they were 12-24 months ago.
To Harambe's repeated point that vaccines are "effective," this should be clarified in which contexts it's effective or modified to "somewhat effective." They unequivocally provide something to immunologically naive individuals, but the line hasn't changed since the beginning of 2021 when "effective" meant, preventing infection.
Obviously, previous infection also significantly benefits individuals when facing future risk. There aren't that many people left that are truly immunologically naive. These people face the greatest risk, but don't represent a very large chunk of the pie.
No, vaccines are highly effective. Nobody argues that they (unboosted vaccines) don't offer much protection against mild infection with a highly divergent strain (omicron), but neither does any other kind of immune challenge – infection included. Boosters offer good protection against infection with Omicron, albeit subject to standard waning trends.
In fact, there's good evidence that vaccinations is necessary for good immune memory after Omicron infection. Those with infection alone do not develop broad immune protection after Omicron infection – while those with prior vaccines do.
Vaccines have been proven to induce strong B-cell memory against Omicron.
Immunization with 2 doses of mRNA vaccine encoding the ancestral SARS-CoV-2 spike protein induces a population of durable memory B cells with broad reactivity to viral variants including Omicron. Boosting with a 3rd dose of a...
Of course nobody disputes that vaccines are extremely protective against severe disease, long term effects, and hospitalization. This is what we should all be caring about, but antivaxxers-deniers have, of course, suddenly started caring TONS about mild infections after crying for years that we were given them too much weight.
The vaccines were effective with alpha and delta, but are something has changed. The following analysis shows that vaccinated have LESS protection against Omicron than the unvaccinated!
How is that possible? ...unless it's a weakened immune system (ADE), as some vaccine skeptics are claiming?
Here's the data from an analysis of cases in Canada from 31Jan22 to 27Feb22. The first chart shows the estimated population in each vaccination category by week. As you can see, the unvaxxed, vaxxed, and boosted cohorts are reasonably similar in population.
The second chart shows cases by category by week. For the vaccine to be effective, you would expect the cases to be higher in the unvaccinated cohort, but they are not. For the vaccine to be neutral, you would expect each cohort to be about the same, but they are not. The unvaxxed cohort is lower... much lower. How is that possible? Serious question... how is that possible? I'm open to an explanation.
The third link is for the article from which I extracted these charts.
