Thanks
Thanks
Was going to take a fall break of two weeks in September just to let a few soreness disappear - something we typically did in England at the end of track and before x-country.
With work that turned into 10+ weeks and 10+ lbs.
Started again mid-late December, and was all-out to run 2 miles at 8 min miling (and stiff and sore the next day).
Fortunately it's started coming around a bit and the last three Sundays have managed a 'long' run of around 8 miles in the low 7 mins (7:07, 7:11 and last week 7:09 starting out at 7:30 and working down to 6:30).
Takes two or three days slow to get over that, but did continuous 5 today made up of 1 mile warm-up in 7:11 - 3 miles of a minute fast/minute slow in 6:45, 6:48 and 6:51 - and I mile warm down in 7:13, so averaged 6:58 per mile. HR average was only 135.
Did 15 x 300m in 71 sec average with 200m in 1 min recovery a couple of weeks ago.
Coming up to 64 in a few weeks time, so feel like it's getting somewhere, but I haven't raced in 18 months, and don't really know decent sub-maximal efforts will translate to race pace.
Apart from a couple of 8:00+ min pace recovery runs, generally doing steady runs of 5 in the 7:30-7:40 range on other days.
Curious where any experts out there thinks that puts a 5k?
The Garmin thinks I should run 18:02 5k and 38:30 10k, but since that is age graded around 14:00 and 29:52 age graded, I think it's a long, long way out. I'd actually be pretty pleased to break 20:00 for 5k right now.
Stocky Older Runner wrote:
It's amazing how well I feel after a 50 min hard intensity spin bike workout - no joint pain or discomfort. I can walk without pain and inflammation the next day and the ankle & hip feel great. Contrast that with how bad I feel after just a 4 or 5 mile easy run, even on a softer surface like a trail - pain & discomfort in the joints, walking with a limp for a day or so, having to ice for the next 24 hrs and sometimes even some pain medication before bed. With spinning, I can even do back to back workouts on the bike with no trouble - I haven't been able to run back to back for years now.
Stocky, always good to see that you're still at it. Cycling definitely is less damaging to the body, but I find it doesn't burn enough calories to control my weight (compared to running).
I did another 20-minute spinning session today. That's about as long as I can tolerate, but I need more time in the saddle -- gotta get my butt ready for longer rides on the road. A sore bum was the limiting factor when attempting a double-century a couple years ago.
Like you, I can no longer run on consecutive days. Knee issues. Still, I haven't given up the idea of running another marathon. A few years back, I could still go sub-3:30 on two or three runs per week, plus some biking. I'd be happy to match that time again. Really happy.
Allen1959,
On a spin bike I cycle 3:00 at high rpm, 2:00 standing with more tension. The alternating helps break up the monotony.
I am painting my house currently, I know I could not do the physical labor you and other posters do on a daily basis, and still run. Much respect.
Igy
Cavorty wrote:
Curious where any experts out there thinks that puts a 5k?
The Garmin thinks I should run 18:02 5k and 38:30 10k, but since that is age graded around 14:00 and 29:52 age graded, I think it's a long, long way out. I'd actually be pretty pleased to break 20:00 for 5k right now.
A couple years ago, I was in similar condition, I'd say, and didn't break 19. I think 19:13 or thereabouts was as close as I got. I was only 59 -- now at 61, I can't even dream of anything close to that. Ha!
Ghost of Igloi wrote:On a spin bike I cycle 3:00 at high rpm, 2:00 standing with more tension. The alternating helps break up the monotony.
Yeah, it really helps to break it up like that. I'll sometimes push a higher gear for a couple minutes, maintaining cadence (90-95 rpm), then recover in a lower gear. I have my road bike mounted on a magnetic-resistence trainer.
I'm hoping for an early spring, and back out on the roads.
Good luck with the house-painting. I painted a friend's house a week before my 2017 marathon, and I don't think it helped. Two-story house, up and down a ladder (no scaffolding). Not easy!
I hired out the last paint job in my own house. Oil paint! That was 20 years ago. Still looks good.
Correction: last paint job ON my house. Exterior.
Allen1959,
I learned to paint from my father. During the Depression he hopped a train to California and worked as a painter. He would thin oil base paint to when applied it looked like it was sprayed. I don’t think that is possible with water base paint. I painted apartments in L.A. when on breaks in graduate school, and summer vacations my first two years of coaching. On this project, exterior, I completed a difficult to reach two story section with a roller (4” nap) and Richard’s brush, both with an extension. If you are not familiar with a Richard’s brush, it has a flexible rubber handle that can be articulated at any angle.
Igy
Allen1959 wrote:
Ghost of Igloi wrote:On a spin bike I cycle 3:00 at high rpm, 2:00 standing with more tension. The alternating helps break up the monotony.
Yeah, it really helps to break it up like that. I'll sometimes push a higher gear for a couple minutes, maintaining cadence (90-95 rpm), then recover in a lower gear. I have my road bike mounted on a magnetic-resistence trainer.
I have my bike on a magnetic trainer in my garage, where it's nice and cool during the dark winter and is also far from the bedroom where my husband is still sleeping when I start my morning spin. I listen to music while watching traffic go by on the road 200 m from my house. I use both the music (breaks between songs) and traffic (counting down cars, waiting for a particular color of car or a motorcycle) to cue switches between sitting down at high rpm and standing up, and between different hand positions (drops/hoods/tops/no hands sitting straight up) while sitting. Using games like this, I can easily make it through 75 minutes on the trainer, which is what I'm doing almost every day now that I can't run.
And by the way, the Bob Seger trio of Katmandu, Feel Like a Number, and Rock N' Roll Never Forgets is the greatest set of songs to accompany working out on a bike trainer.
Igy, maybe I should hire YOU when my house needs painting again! Sounds like you definitely know what you're doing. The guys that painted my house 20 years ago had a bucket truck, which makes things much easier. The first coat was thinned with linseed oil. Second coat 'full strength." Both coats sprayed on, then hand-brushed.
I mentioned I painted a house the week before my age 57 marathon. Actually, I STARTED painting it during the week before the marathon, finishing only a day before. Strained my back hoisting the ladder around, and something about standing on the narrow ladder rungs really messed up one foot. I was in a lot of pain the morning of the marathon.
But race-day magic, as usual, cures all!
Ghost of Igloi wrote:
Good luck, continue to share your journey.
Thanks Ghost. Luckily we had a break in weather up here in Alberta, We had two solid weeks at -30C to -35C (before the windchill). So I was reduced to having to use the treadmill, which I hate. Now its a balmy 0 C here!!
Good luck to you all.
Allen1959 wrote:
Cavorty wrote:
Curious where any experts out there thinks that puts a 5k?
The Garmin thinks I should run 18:02 5k and 38:30 10k, but since that is age graded around 14:00 and 29:52 age graded, I think it's a long, long way out. I'd actually be pretty pleased to break 20:00 for 5k right now.
A couple years ago, I was in similar condition, I'd say, and didn't break 19. I think 19:13 or thereabouts was as close as I got. I was only 59 -- now at 61, I can't even dream of anything close to that. Ha!
Thanks. I'd be really happy with something around that right now. This is only about 12-14 weeks back in, and I'm hoping that there is still some improvement to come, although I tend to be a master of a rapid peak and then a plateau! I've got some things to add, haven't done any longer runs than 8.0 miles yet, no hills, not a lot of track work.
Long term is the 3000m at the Huntsman Games next year (when I'm 65), as 5000m is a bit of stretch on distance for optimal distance for me.
Cavorty , that 15x300 in 71, R200 in 30 tack on 500 meters works out to 34:50 for 8k figure an evenly raced effort for the 8k at 32:50 converts to a 20:05 5k 6:37 pace. probably around 11:25 for 3k as the shorter race you do better.
Observations on pace and aging:
My 75 percent of mhr pace,156, at 62 was only 20 seconds a mile slower than when I was 42.
However I raced a minute per mile slower. Even though my resting and max HR were about the same. WAG this is a common phenomena.
Perceived effort at 156Hr was much harder in my 60s than in my 40s. So 156 at 43 felt like 168 at 63.
WAG :
Effect of Age on the Response of the Left Ventricular Ejection Fraction to Exercise
Solution:
Up tempo bike riding seems to have helped with this issue . When my knees started hurting(tendon issues from a training error) I started hammering the bike not super hard but a lot of ftp type stuff. I noticed a rapid improvement along with less perceived effort at a higher heart rate.
So the knee issues are gone but I am not yet running fit. The other day I ran a 6:38 1600 at HR 156 and the effort felt closer to what 156 felt like in my 40s. My easy runs are also at a higher heart rate and faster but feel easy. I suspect my heart muscle is trainable and responded to the higher intensities I did on the bike. I backed off the hard bike stuff because I was happy with how I felt before hammering on the bike. IOW optimal training defined as being run span not run fast for a year or 2. Call it optimistic approach to old age. Train with a 20 or even 30 year window. Today is always day one of your life time training plan;)
Cardiac output and stroke volume. The apparent effect
of age on cardiac output during exercise, as well as at rest,
has varied among studies (Fig. I) depending on the subjects
selected for study (19). The increase in heart rate during
vigorous exercise is less in elderly persons (4,19). However,
in some subjects aged 65 to 80 years who were rigorously
screened to exclude occult coronary disease and whose rest
cardiac volume or output was not reduced, stroke volume
during exercise increased more than in younger individuals
and compensated for the lesser increase in heart rate (Fig.
IC and 2). As shown in Figure 2, subjects of all ages exhibit
comparable increases in left ventricular end-diastolic volume during upright exercise at low work loads. At higher
work loads, in younger individuals, as the heart rate accelerates, end-diastolic and end-systolic volumes decrease
and stroke volume plateaus. However, in older individuals
whose heart rate increase is less, increases in left ventricular
volume and stroke volume continue throughout exercise, an
example of the Frank-Starling mechanism. I
Cavorty,
You likely know this simple test workout for 5k fitness. I use it often when ramping up to a 5k road race. I'm slightly different in that my strength is 800/1500/Mile but do 5 x 1000m on the track with 3mins rest and that should give you a solid read on fitness. Note it should be a few clicks under 5k goal pace.
I'm gearing up for my debut 2021 outdoor 1500 and feel good about yesterday's road session after losing 3-6lbs from Jan1 to now and trending up in weekly mileage 5-10miles 45-50mpw with a lot better LSD runs.
1 x Mile @ 5:32 (5min rest)
4 x 880 @ 2:59-2:55-2:52-2:50
Hope all y'all are physically = mentally well.
KP M60
Hi KP,
Your times could be my summer goal while 10 years younger. Impressing.
Take care
Allen1959 wrote:
Stocky Older Runner wrote:
It's amazing how well I feel after a 50 min hard intensity spin bike workout - no joint pain or discomfort. I can walk without pain and inflammation the next day and the ankle & hip feel great. Contrast that with how bad I feel after just a 4 or 5 mile easy run, even on a softer surface like a trail - pain & discomfort in the joints, walking with a limp for a day or so, having to ice for the next 24 hrs and sometimes even some pain medication before bed. With spinning, I can even do back to back workouts on the bike with no trouble - I haven't been able to run back to back for years now.
Stocky, always good to see that you're still at it. Cycling definitely is less damaging to the body, but I find it doesn't burn enough calories to control my weight (compared to running).
I did another 20-minute spinning session today. That's about as long as I can tolerate, but I need more time in the saddle -- gotta get my butt ready for longer rides on the road. A sore bum was the limiting factor when attempting a double-century a couple years ago.
Like you, I can no longer run on consecutive days. Knee issues. Still, I haven't given up the idea of running another marathon. A few years back, I could still go sub-3:30 on two or three runs per week, plus some biking. I'd be happy to match that time again. Really happy.
You're right...I'm probably not burning enough calories spinning for 50 mins compared to 50 mins of running where I'm pushing this "tank" against gravity, air resistance and all that. Lol. That being said, I can get my HR up fairly comparable to a moderately-hard running effort by going with a higher gear and riding hard out of the saddle for intermittent periods of 1 to 2 minutes every 5 minutes or so of spinning. Fortunately, this gym has state of the art Schwinn Carbon Blue spin bikes that are designed with the handle bar arrangement to accommodate out of the saddle riding. The bikes also have power meters which is a game changer for spinning as you can ride on wattage effort, which really challenges you if set a high wattage target zone for your desired workout.
One of the other benefits of this gym is that they have an actual spin room isolated from the cardio area and weight area. The room has a huge big screen linked up to a program computer where members can put virtually reality-type climbs from different mountain courses throughout the world or put on a spin class video with an instructor. In fact, just the other day a friend of mine who is a middle-aged hard core cyclist put on the Mt. Evan's climb, which is 14,000 ft peak here west of Denver that has an annual bike race and is also uses by pro cyclists for altitude training. I tried to keep up with my friend based the his wattage and he smoked me but nonetheless I got a great workout. Plus I listen to my heavy metal tunes from the back in the day (Metallica, Megadeth, Motley Crue, etc) to power me though on those unmotivated days. Sure, I'd rather be running more than 2 days a week and not have to go the gym so often. But with these types of spin bikes and this state of the art spin room, I can't complain.
What about finding a nearby gym that has decent spin bikes/spin room? Maybe that would allow better cardio workouts in between your run days? I thought about buying a road bike and riding outside, but I can't control the weather and besides the traffic here in the burbs of Denver is unmerciful at best, and I would have to drive quite a ways up to the foothills outside of the metro to ride on some of the less traveled roads. And I actually like being around other people in the spin room - I've met several former/current runners who due to chronic injuries have either thrown in the towel or have scaled back running considerably, and now I have other runners to gripe with about running injuries. Lol.
Stocky Older Runner wrote:
What about finding a nearby gym that has decent spin bikes/spin room? Maybe that would allow better cardio workouts in between your run days? I thought about buying a road bike and riding outside, but I can't control the weather and besides the traffic here in the burbs of Denver is unmerciful at best, and I would have to drive quite a ways up to the foothills outside of the metro to ride on some of the less traveled roads. And I actually like being around other people in the spin room - I've met several former/current runners who due to chronic injuries have either thrown in the towel or have scaled back running considerably, and now I have other runners to gripe with about running injuries. Lol.
I don't know about NY, but in my county in CA all indoor gyms are still closed. Some of the gyms have put some equipment outdoors but I don't think they're put spin bikes outdoors. I don't need a gym to ride a bike on a trainer, but I would dearly love to have a gym for more strength/resistance training than I can do at home. Particularly since I'm now fully vaccinated I'm feeling fairly bulletproof, but I have no gym options yet.