Allen1959 wrote:
Then while bicycling, she suffered sudden knee pain. After that, it was too painful to run even a few steps. She went to a sports MD, and based on the knee x-ray, "arthritis, NO MORE RUNNING, EVER!"
I guess time for a second opinion?
Something that acute needs to be investigated further. And I think some docs are working outdated knowledge as to how running affects knees.
Rtype wrote:Something that acute needs to be investigated further.
Thanks. That's my wife's take, as well. While arthritis is probably present, and a significant factor, the suddenness suggests something else is involved. I think the MD looked at the x-ray, determined arthritis, and declared "case closed." Now, the daunting task of finding another specialist.
Allen1959 wrote:
Rtype wrote:Something that acute needs to be investigated further.
Thanks. That's my wife's take, as well. While arthritis is probably present, and a significant factor, the suddenness suggests something else is involved. I think the MD looked at the x-ray, determined arthritis, and declared "case closed." Now, the daunting task of finding another specialist.
Wife had some similar symptoms. Went to PT, no relief, and finally to an orthopedist, MRI showed stress fracture. The X-ray will show fracture upon calcification, while MRI shows hot spot indicative of stress fracture. Treatment was rest, and NSAID for six weeks.
Did they rule out a meniscus tear?
'mopac wrote:Did they rule out a meniscus tear?
A quick x-ray, a quick diagnosis. No MRI or other tests.
She was hoping for something "fixable" like a meniscus tear. It's been several months now, with no running, no biking and no improvement. Need to get another opinion, just wondering if anyone here had experience with "sudden onset dibilitating arthritis of the knees" (my terminology, ha).
Allen1959 wrote:
'mopac wrote:Did they rule out a meniscus tear?
A quick x-ray, a quick diagnosis. No MRI or other tests.
She was hoping for something "fixable" like a meniscus tear. It's been several months now, with no running, no biking and no improvement. Need to get another opinion, just wondering if anyone here had experience with "sudden onset dibilitating arthritis of the knees" (my terminology, ha).
That really is tough.
mopac+1
Friend with sudden onset:
We did weekly 50 mile bike rides. He had a knee issue that would come on out of no where. Pretty sure it was a piece of meniscus that was floating around . He ended up having surgery to remove it and made a full recovery. In fact he was able to do the Houston to Austin MS150 that same year as the surgery. This was 26 years ago!
More on Raven. Great song about Raven's running starting @ 1:33 (I'm going start running to this song). ?
It's simply mind-blowing seeing someone 66 yrs old and this busted up running 8 miles a day...everyday...no matter what. Plus his upper body workout, without utilizing a gym, is impressive.
Nov 7 2016 :
Charlie wrote:
So a couple of weeks ago I for no good reason decided to run up the hill I normally hike. That short hard 7 minute run reminded me of why I used to love running. A few days later I ran my old loop around Glendoveer Golf Course. WOW was I pleasantly surprised with the time, 15:42. Not a bad time at all so I am going to add in some regular running maybe once or twice a week and see where it leads me.
Four years later it has been a fun one.
Time for a break from running.
Saving some for later?
Good Luck to all !
Allen1959 wrote:
'mopac wrote:Did they rule out a meniscus tear?
A quick x-ray, a quick diagnosis. No MRI or other tests.
She was hoping for something "fixable" like a meniscus tear. It's been several months now, with no running, no biking and no improvement. Need to get another opinion, just wondering if anyone here had experience with "sudden onset dibilitating arthritis of the knees" (my terminology, ha).
Is there any more details on your wife's X-rays in terms of the degree of arthritis? There's different degrees of OA based on the joint spacing seen (e.g., grade 1 - "very mild" up to grade 4 - "severe"). It's my understanding that severe OA of the knee pretty much ends any hope of running or any high-impact activity, and the majority of these people eventually end up needing a knee replacement.
I've had several MRIs over the last 15 yrs for an assortment of running & non-running related injuries. In fact, two (2) MRIs on each knee. In these cases, I initially consulted with a Sports MD for chronic pain problems. I generally wasn't happy with uncertainty of the diagnosis (could be arthritis, might be something else, etc) and the general recommendation to reduce running and all that. So, I went to the next level consulting with a Sports Orthopedic surgeon and getting an MRI. When an MRI of a joint is reviewed - it's done by a MSK Radiologist. These specialists are excellent at determining exactly what's wrong with the joint providing a clear picture to the orthopedic surgeon on what intervention can be done (surgical vs non-surgical treatment).
In my left knee, which the Sports MD was certain it was OA, turned out from the MRI evaluation to be Patellofemoral Pain Syndrome. The articular cartilage compartments (the important area for a runner) and surrounding structures were unremarkable. A non-surgical plan of rehab (eccentric knee squats & other quad strengthening excercises plus running on softer surfaces did the trick).
On my right knee, it was little more difficult. The MRI finding was a mild OA (grade 2) of the articular cartilage (both lateral & medial compartments) and a degenerative ACL tear that was causing some instability in the joint (the knee would give out at times when pivoting or a sudden change in direction). Since it was mild OA, there wasn't any consideration for a knee replacement or anything dramatical like that (grade's 1 & 2 generally are not a problem for high-impact activities while 3 & 4, especially 4, are definitely a concern). The ACL tear could have been reconstructed, but given my age and the fact I'm not a pro athlete or anything like that, no surgical intervention was needed. So, basically it was upper leg strengthening excercises to help reduce the load in the joint, and I started using Glucosamine Sulfate in high doses. There's some evidence that Glucosamine can prevent mild OA from getting worse as well as help with pain and discomfort (I'm sure this has discussed here many times). But at the present time, spin biking helps the knee more than anything - getting good circulation in the joint without the pain & inflammation from impact on the knee from running (I do wear a knee sleave/brace when running).
MRI vs X-ray:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16515760/OA & running:
https://www.womensrunning.co.uk/health/arthritis-end-running/Stocky Runner wrote:Is there any more details on your wife's X-rays in terms of the degree of arthritis?
Stocky, thanks so much for your thoughts on this. I've forwarded your entire essay to my wife. Also, thanks for those links. The sports PA (not MD, I was mistaken) did specifically say it is NOT a meniscus tear, although I'm not sure how he determined that. I'm also not sure if he indicated the relative severity if the arthritis. I'll let you know if/when we get more info.
Think it has been a few years since posting. Life threw me some curveballs and I whiffed them all.
53 yo and currently on the road in a camper I had built a couple months ago in Thailand. Went from almost 100% x-training to 100% running starting about a month ago. No structured workouts and about 60 miles last week with some hard fartlek workouts on the steepest roads I’ve ever seen. Focusing on only doing hard sessions on steep hills to reduce impact and build back the strength of a few years back.
Surprised myself with my second fast run in 4 months. Saw a Strava segment around Sukhothai Historic Park. 2.62 mile loop and was able to average 5:33/mile for the loop and the last mile at 5:24. Went back to the car and threw on some trainers and then ran another relatively easy 5:59/mile 5k.
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Signed up for a half on 12/27 after the above workout. Having fun running again which is also unexpected.
Happy running to everyone!
Hi Charlie,
what does your message mean?
Will you go offline here?
I like your posts and your links.
Keep going.
BR
Hi BigMango,
welcome (back). Very quick running.
Would like to hear more about your living in a camper.
BR
Newbi wrote:
Hi Charlie,
what does your message mean?
Will you go offline here?
I like your posts and your links.
Keep going.
BR
Sounds like it means he’s “the running kind” and is off to some other adventures that don’t involve jogging in sand.
Newbi wrote:
Hi Charlie,
what does your message mean? Lost the desire/fire to train hard .
Will you go offline here? As always I will read the thread and shake the bush now and then
I like your posts and your links. Thanks
Keep going. Believe me that is my long range plan
BR
Got it. All the best. If you have ideas how to do old things in a new way, please share. Creative input is highly appreciated. Have fun jn your new adventures.
Hang in there with us Charlie. We all need one another; particularly this group of athletes who never quit. And pardon me for using that word as it is by no means aimed at you directly.
KP
*Week 498*
Salutations, 50+ers! I continue to waffle back and forth between getting going and getting overwhelmed with work; this "finals week" has proved to be yet another one of those "too much other stuff going on" kinds of weeks. Should I have forced myself to do more self-care and let some things slide? Probably. Did I? Not much. Did get our for several ~1 hour long walks---brisk even--just not enough. Hopefully, with grades all in tomorrow and committee meetings for the semester mostly over on Tuesday with most faculty taking vacation days for the latter part of the week, I'll get a lot more exercise in. There is always clean-up work, and student complaints, to take care of, but I'll be happy for even the slightest reprieve.
Sorry to hear about your issues, amkelly; I hope working with your rheumatologist finds some relief. And sorry to hear about your wife, Allen1959; lots of good suggestions here, certainly warrants deeper analysis. To others, nice to see some solid training and time-trialing. Even if sometimes disappointing results may have been expressed, I think those that can, are still happy to be just able to keep getting out there. So Charlie taking another running hiatus--be well, my friend.
I saw where Dan King down in South Carolina really heated up the master's middle distance this weekend. Here's what he posted in the "masters milers" Facebook group:
"I had a crazy good finale to the Covid 2020 outdoor track season at the Five and Dime Athletics Meeting in Columbia SC this weekend. Two days, three American M60 records: 4:52.7 mile, 9:58.7 3000 meters (split time), and 16:48.7 5000 meters.
I am so grateful for a couple of stellar young pacers (Alex and Adam), my masters running compatriots Chris McDonald, Dale Flanders and Francis Burdett, and also especially to Dave Milner for his continued efforts to support athletes throughout this crazy pandemic year.
Beyond my wildest expectations! ❤️"
OK. That's it from the Bluegrass. Look forward to hearing about your week. Stay safe out there!
All the Best!
Amazing weekend and year for Dan King. Hope to line up at BolderBoulder next spring if that happens, although he has taken it to another level. And I have fallen back a level or two.
45 miles on 6 days of running, mixed in a bit of hill effort (10 minutes) on Thursday and ran a 5K progression at aerobic effort (16 degrees) yesterday. Going XC today to cap off the week. My three week slow down/recovery is over and plan to build back up, keeping some skiing in the mix for another 6-8 weeks.