50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

M 4 mi

T 8 mi.

W 8.1 mi

Th 7.2 mi

F. 8.1 mi

S 7.1 mi

S 10.1 mi........52.6 miles

Strides twice, weight lifting once.....Aleve helps.

I’m a season ticket holder of an NHL and MLB team. Not having those two distractions has really helped my training.

That and Covid. As horrible as Covid is.

Getting back to training is one thing social distancing is good for particularly being compromised immune wise after last years cancer treatment experience.

Nearly 55 yo WM, 6-3, 188

Master’s “prs” - 22:45,48:26,1:48:26 ( 20 months ago)

This week started with new plan going on a 9 day micro cycle to try to stay healthy in hopes of catching my “ White Whale” next fall ( sub 4 marathon)

This week:

M- 5 very easy

T- off

W- 10 ( longest run in 6 months) progressed down to 9:06 final mile

Th- 4 very easy

Fr- 6 easy with 6 20 sec strides

Sa- off

Su- 8 total; 4 easy , 4 sets of hill strides - 60”,40”,20” with 3 min easy jog in between sets,1 mi easy

33 for week; got to do some strength stuff but hate to do

Allen59, good to see you getting back on track and I hope you get your marathon goal somewhere down the road.

Robert E. Lee, you continue to log some impressive mileage, particularly considering your history.

My ability to do anything athletic continues to deteriorate. I raised my prednisone dose from 2 mg/day to 5 mg but it hasn’t helped much. Every time I try to run, the muscles in my hips and upper thighs get so sore that I can barely walk the next day. I can still ride a bike at a slow speed so that’s the main thing I did this week. The week amounted to 16.8 miles of painful jogging, about 100 miles on the bike, a 75 minute spin on the bike trainer, and a hike in the mountains this morning that was aborted to barely over a mile by serious ice on the trail. We had never tried hiking this late in the season, and the conclusion is that you can’t hike those trails after the first snowfall, even if it’s been a few weeks of warmish weather since it snowed. In the meantime I’m getting all manner of blood tests, urinalyses, and x-rays as my new rheumatologist tries to figure out what’s wrong with me.

Weighing in on the running surface discussion: I’ve been really clumsy all my life and I was in my 30s when I gave up on trying to run on any sort of rough trails. Since then I’ve been running almost exclusively on roads, mostly paved roads. Since injuring my Achilles 5.5 years ago I’ve had to be particularly careful to avoid uneven terrain that requires a lot of ankle flexion. Between 2003 and 2013 I lived in a rural area with no sidewalks and few street lights, and in the winter most of my running was done in the darkness of early morning. I averaged about one crash per year hitting rough terrain when having to move off the paved road onto the unpaved shoulder to avoid traffic. In 2013 I moved closer to town where there are street lights almost everywhere, and I have not had a fall since then despite continuing to do a lot of my running in the dark. Certainly my ideal running surface would be smooth dirt, but I don’t have easy access to much of that from my current location.

One more week of the semester to go, then finals week. No travel plans during the holidays, though. It will be just my husband, myself, and the dogs here at home, riding out the pandemic.

Week 2 of cutback/seasonal reset. Ran 5 days for 34 miles (range of 5-8), just easy pace. Bike trainer one day for 35 minutes--of course picking the day it was windy and cold, with some snow--and today did 1:42 of XC skiing with 1600 ft of climb. At 9000 feet that about did me in, but the downhill was fun.

I'm amazed at how long it took to get into a decent fitness level, capped off with the 5K the other week following 4 months of 60 mile weeks but how quickly it all falls apart. I'd run 25 seconds slower if the race had been this weekend. #imaysuckatrunningbutkeepgoinganyway

Coyote Montane wrote:

capped off with the 5K the other week following 4 months of 60 mile weeks but how quickly it all falls apart. I'd run 25 seconds slower if the race had been this weekend. #imaysuckatrunningbutkeepgoinganyway

Being super fit is not homeostasis, especially distance running .

It seems like I have this pattern of running for 4 or so years then quit running for a few years then try another come back. It is kinda fun makes running new and fresh but it keeps taking longer and longer to get back.

Is distance running extremely catabolic?

This guy thinks so he uses Ryan Hall as an example

I'm so sorry to read this. Visiting my chiropractor this week, I learned that he has stopped running as well because of chronic pain. Now he gets around on his e-bike. While that is nothing to sneeze at, and I've been eyeing those amazing e-cargo bikes for some time, I know it would be a real loss if I were to stop running.

Rtype, pretty soon it will be the former AMC theater parking lot you run around ...

Today's 5K was disappointing at first until I took everything into account: (1) running into headwinds of 10mph (2) 166 feet of climbing mostly while running into those winds (3) my age grade is actually higher than it was 2 years ago when I ran this same course 8 seconds faster ...well, duh. And (4) my run season is officially at an end, hurray! I can bike-train to my heart's content and heal up from whatever is ailing me on my right side.."lumbar muscle tension" is what my chiro's calling it. I've had it before and it went away by not racing or training for a race.

Anyway, it was a nice 35F start, competitive enough, not Valencia by any means (I was the only age-grader to crack 80), but there was always someone ahead of me to try running down, which makes for a more interesting race. Wasn't quite able to catch this guy who took the masters crown ... from his Nike Pace team bio ...

Then again, he's a mere 47.

Just got back from a bike spin at the Y. I ride without tunes, just like when I run. There is a dude on an elliptical that must have been inspired by Morgan Wallen on Saturday Night Live. He’s singing away a laundry list of country songs with his I Phone in a “The Way I Talk” East Tennessee twang. Then without a change in inflection he belts out “TIME FOR A COOL ?

Punch line was TIME FOR A COOL CHANGE....

I hope the rheumatologist can help. sounds so frustrating,

Dave

Amk: get well soon.

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Just got back from a bike spin at the Y. I ride without tunes, just like when I run.

I knew I liked you for a reason Igy. Buds are for drinking not jogging.

Good to see you're back on your 3-run week. Not me though - I'm down to a 2-run week (from 3-run weeks the last several years). Too heavy (173 lbs @ 5-7) , too much weight training & too old is too much for my arthritic ankle, knee & back.

Instead, I've become enamored with spin bike workouts doing HIIT and other high-intensity sustained efforts. After a good bike session, my joints feel great and I have no pain issues compared to a 45-60 min run where I'm hurting and at times even limping the rest of the day. If I peek into my crystal ball, it looks like I'm running on barrowed time and the day may soon be near where running is just too difficult to pursue anymore.

On Ibuprofen: the latest research is that NSAIDs may not be so good in the treatment of chronic pain & inflammation. NSAIDs can slow healing of muscles, tissues, ligaments and bones. For acute injuries, short-term use is very effective in reducing swelling and accelerating healing of soft tissue injuries.

Back in my early 50s when I was running 5 days per week & racing frequently, I was taking almost a daily Advil for months to treat an assortment of soft tissue injuries that I was stupidly trying to run through (we called Advil "runner's candy" back when I was running with a local masters club). After several months of advil use, the roof collapsed when I partially tore my Achilles during a track race. That cost me several months of intense rehab and now the tendon is degenerated to chronic tendinitis.

I firmly believe the chronic use of the NSAID had something to do with that injury. I now only use Tylenol and save the NSAIDs for acute injuries.

Charlie wrote:

SS cushioning shoe or surface is an interesting topic, the following article states the paradox much better than I can:

https://runnersconnect.net/running-surface/#:~:text=But%20here's%20the%20odd%20part,when%20we%20consider%20injury%20prevention

.

Soft surfaces have to be the way to go if you suffer from arthritis and other degenerative pathologies.

Anyone here remember "Raven" from South Florida? This cat hasn't missed a daily run for 45 yrs straight! ? He's got a busted up arthritic back and somehow manages a daily run no matter what! He can only run on the soft sand of the S. Florida beaches (he's tried pavement with catastrophic consequences).

Check out "Raven's roll call" on one of his daily runs! This guy is a riot ?. I have a lot of respect for this cat with his busted up back and all...incredible tenacity! ?

The body has recovered well from my 4 hr adventure on Mt Buller the previous Sunday.

Mon. 50 min kayak and 42 min mountain bike ride.

Tue. am. 51 min mountain bike ride. pm. 30 min run on grass 5.6 km, a progressive 5 km from 5.40 to 4.40 per km.

Did this on the grass track within the velodrome after work at 10.30 pm.

Wed. 49 min mountain bike ride and straight into a 5.4 km run on flat forest trails in 30 min.

Thu. 23 km/52 min road ride with a few solid hills and plenty of wind. 6 km hilly run in 34 min. 4th km 4.30 and 6th in 4.13.

Fri. 49 min kayak. 23 km/52 min road ride with 4 strong steady efforts up a 2 km hill.

Sat. 9 km run in wild weather on a fairly hilly course, 130 metres elev. gain. 51 min.

Sun. 14 km run on some good hills, 400 metres elevation gain. 90 min.

A good week. I changed up with more frequent but shorter runs and rides during the week.

I was body weary monday and tuesday so skipped my usual morning wake up routine of hiking and exercises.

Subsequent recovery has been fine. Thursday I just opened the throttle up a couple of times and felt pretty sharp.

Re. Ibuprofen. I am always amazed at the willingness of some to use this drug so frequently. There are consequences. It should only be used for acute issues. It is not new knowledge that it harms injury healing.

I run on a wide mix of surfaces. I do have issues if I run for a long period on smooth flat ground. I believe because wear and tear of 50 years of running has left me a little lopsided. The repetitiveness seems the issue. The hardness/ softness underfoot doesn't worry me.

mo'pac wrote:

Re. Ibuprofen. I am always amazed at the willingness of some to use this drug so frequently. There are consequences. It should only be used for acute issues. It is not new knowledge that it harms injury healing.

I run on a wide mix of surfaces. I do have issues if I run for a long period on smooth flat ground. I believe because wear and tear of 50 years of running has left me a little lopsided. The repetitiveness seems the issue. The hardness/ softness underfoot doesn't worry me.

Listen to the medical pro everyone. I am currently taking 2 Tylenol and 1 aspirin 1-2 times a day to deal with the current discomfort. As others have pointed out, the less you use it the more it works.

I can’t weigh in on surfaces since during COVID I have run on park trails sealed with a rubbery composite and I have some issues right now. But I doubt surfaces or shoes are to blame.

By the way my page is reloading CONSTANTLY on this board these days. Fortunately I’ve learned that all you have to do is hit any Reply link and your old reply window comes back up.

Stocky Runner wrote:On Ibuprofen: the latest research is that NSAIDs may not be so good in the treatment of chronic pain & inflammation. NSAIDs can slow healing of muscles, tissues, ligaments and bones. For acute injuries, short-term use is very effective in reducing swelling and accelerating healing of soft tissue injuries.

Thanks for the link and info. During marathon training, I'd only be considering ibuprofen after introducing weekly long runs a couple months before race day. So, maybe a day or two each week for six weeks. At present, I don't use it.

Sorry to see you've had to cut back to two days a week. The spinning routine sounds good, though. I'm really hoping to get back to riding next year, after not getting out at all in 2020 (well, one or two 18-mile jaunts, only). BTW, full disclosure: the "low-mileage marathon schedule" I listed earlier also included a couple one-hour rides most weeks.

Regarding arthritis, a few weeks ago my wife was diagnosed with arthritic knees. Earlier this year she resumed running, and was having some knee discomfort, but not too bad. It would subside as each run progressed.

Then while bicycling, she suffered sudden knee pain. After that, it was too painful to run even a few steps. She went to a sports MD, and based on the knee x-ray, "arthritis, NO MORE RUNNING, EVER!"

She's 65, started running in her early 30s. Competitive locally, never high mileage. She questions arthritis as the cause of the sudden and debilitating pain. Normal day-to-day movement is now extremely painful, too ( she doesn't take any painkillers or anti-inflammatories). I guess time for a second opinion?

Charlie wrote:

Coyote Montane wrote:

capped off with the 5K the other week following 4 months of 60 mile weeks but how quickly it all falls apart. I'd run 25 seconds slower if the race had been this weekend. #imaysuckatrunningbutkeepgoinganyway

Being super fit is not homeostasis, especially distance running .

It seems like I have this pattern of running for 4 or so years then quit running for a few years then try another come back. It is kinda fun makes running new and fresh but it keeps taking longer and longer to get back.

I think that's in the art of self-coaching, kind of rolling with ebbs and flows and sometimes it works better than others. I do know that compared to my younger days it takes 3X or 4X as long to gain fitness and it it seems to go away much more quickly. In my 20s and to mid-30s I could come off a lay off or ski season and in 6 weeks be close to PR shape. Now it takes months. And from early 2017 through most of 2019 kept fairly good fitness level throughout, until it suddenly fell apart a year ago October.

Re: surfaces, that is counter-intuitive but also muscle soreness is subjective and there are different kinds of soreness to consider.

Say I'm doing 6X1K at 8K race pace (a pretty stiff workout for me at this stage), on the next day from least to most sore, assuming the same workout shoes/Saucony Kinvara or Adidas Boston. and a reasonably flat or rolling course.

Grass

Gravel path

Woodchip path

Sandy beach (running by time, not distance)

All-weather track

Asphalt

Concrete

The sandy beach is the anomaly, because I might be more sore on day 1 but it's gone by day 2. As far as shoes are concerned, I demo'd some Hoka's with club runs a couple of times and found the sensation to be similar. Like my muscles are working harder, and I might be more tired initially, there seems to be less pounding than on a shoe with a thinner sole.

And asphalt or concrete are definitely cumulative--if I run on those surfaces every day for a week, I'm feeling it.

Right now, I am only running in a public park, which is part asphalt and part concrete. I guess this is not ideal for my joints, and maybe I should mix up with some running on a track. The problem with a track is that constant left turn may not be ideal for my knee. For an injury prone runner like myself, a treadmill is an ideal "surface."

M: off.

T-W 10.7km.

R: 12.7km. (10:18-956-9:40-9:30-9:22-9:12-8:34)

F-SA: 10.7km.

SU: 16km. (10:33-10:20-10:05-9:53-9:44-9:38-9:28-9:23-8:55)

I could not close my Sunday's run as fast as I planned, but I was running longer than any time since March 15. So maybe I need more time to get used to the distance.