50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Thanks for the update, Dave. It's amazing how quickly your recovery is going. Kudos to you for being a good patient. My husband decided to wait on his procedure. He has scar tissue on his achilles but he's able to run without pain. It was going to cost over $7,000 at the hospital up here. That seemed crazy when at home the cost is about $2,000. Even though our insurance would cover it, it just didn't seem like it was necessary at this point.

Ok. Back at home now so a quick report on my week and a bit.

This year would have been my 35th 4 Peaks race but no official event due to our good mate Cyrus the Virus.

Old habits die hard so it was off to the mountains regardless.

Day one. Mt Buffalo. 10ish kms with about 1100 metres elevation gain. Tricky running on technical terrain from half way to about 8 kms.

3 (mother/daughter combo Lisa and Bec) of us were starting together. 3 other regular runners from another regional town were going to head off a few minutes behind us. My wife would drive up to where the track crosses the road at half way and hike the 2d half.

I pushed the pace along through the fairly steep first 2.5 kms. The 29 min split was about a minute slower than my ave over the last 5 years. Lisa took over for the next (easier) 2.5 and we kept a good solid pace, 22 mins. Our half way split of 51. My fastest in last 5 years is 48.42 so a good pace for a non race.

It gets tricky from here. The course sidles along a huge granite wall. The views are stunning but it requires lots of concentration to negotiate. The track is mostly small flat rocks layed in water grooves of the granite. Lisa a good rough terrainer continued pulling the train.

After a km or so it changes to a narrow, sometimes steep single twisting single track of rocks, roots and fallen timber. Somewhere along here the intensity dropped a little. This section needs desperate commitment to race hard and without race motivation it wasn't there.

We got passed along here by a former womens winner and the joined by 2 guys inc my old mate 60 plus Ian.

It was just good old slogging until 8 kms. From there the track levels off and even provides a few fun downhills. The pace picked up.

8.5 kms we sailed past my wife who was holding a half fallen tree off the track for us. The descents were seriously fast and Iinitially got squeezed back to last of the group. The garmin said 4.10 km pace so no wonder. The last little bit gets nasty with a section of steep rock steps. I managed to grunt past Lisa and Bec and recatch Ian and his mate. Across the road and up 2 flights of stairs to the Chalet entrance and a finish time of 1.43. My best in the last 5 years is a 1.36 but mostly around 1.39. PB is 1.07 (a 3d place) back in the 80s. Great fun on a beautiful sunny day. It was hard enough to hurt but not quite race effort exhausting.

Day two. Mt Feathertop.

11.5 kms and 1400ish metres elevation gain. Victoria's 2d highest mountain. We have often had to finish this one below the summit because of heavy snowfalls or blizzard conditions.

Not this year though predicted warm weather and clear skies.

There were a few extra runners milling around at the start. I think the Traralgon Harriers had about 8 to 10 having a run inc. former winner and once a 2.22 man Corny. At 57 or 58 he still looks ridiculously fit.

Lisa and Bec towed me along at the start, I felt pretty sluggish but the pace was solid enough.

It wasn't long before we were passed by the former male and female winners and a few others.

Feather is a mostly steady climb and just about maintaining a rhythm. About 7 kms up that rhythm was broken by a series of recent tree falls. Lots of log climbing and lots of timber debris to negotiate.

At 9.5 kms we reached Federation Hut. This is often the end of the race if weather is bad. But we had perfect conditions and would be pushing on. We were about 8 or 9 minutes off my best split of the last 5 years.

The last section to the summit is a rugged rocky beast. Most years there are large slabs of snow but this year only a few small patches. I was feeling pretty strong and pushed it out to the top. My split for the last summit push of 440 metres was 8.53 apparently my new strava record , previous best on strava since 2015 9.13. Sounds slow for 440 metres but it is a nasty rock trail at altitude with 130 metres elevation gain at 29%.

Overall time was 2.09.

There was quite a group up on the summit soaking up the sunshine and the amazing views.

But our day wasn't over. There is no road acess so the only way back down is by foot. A slow 1 hr 50 min return hike/jog.

Day three. The longest leg of the 4 days. Mt Hotham 14.7 kms with about 1400 metres elevation gain.

Fortunately road acess at the top. Lisa's hubby and my wife dropped us off at the bottom and were going to drive up top and do some hiking until we arrived. Then drive us back down the 30 plus km windy mountain road. Our legs would have struggled with a 15 km downhill back to the start.

Only a small group milling around at the start.

Lisa, Bec and I took off before the others. I soon found a good rhythm and set the pace.

The first 6 kms is fairly easy as we run on relatively moderate hilly trails beside the river. I was bowling along comfortably along this section feeling very sharp. Not sure why!!

We crossed the river together and had another passenger on the back of our train.

The next 3 kms is serious climbing, 630 metres 21% ave gradient on sketchy overgrown single track. I slotted into my groove almost zoning out. This is my favourite section of trail and I was in the zone. 4 snakes did briefly stir me from that zone but mostly it was just me and my footfall. I looked back on a switchback and realised I had a bit of a gap on Lisa and Bec and our passenger. I decided to just keep on going until the top of this climb.

That 3 kms took me over 45 mins. Lisa and Bec took over 50.

The next section is often very unfriendly unless Nat Parks have been in to clear it. They hadn't. Eroded single track, fallen trees and young acacia about head high. The track is virtually invisible and most of your energy spent pushing the heavy scrub out of your way. It is actually flat and sometimes downhill however.

I was happy to just plod along thinking Lisa and Bec might catch up. They didn't.

I reached the burnt out stone shell of Bon Accord Hut 11.5 kms and decided to wait for them there.

It was a 10 minute wait. The scrub bashing had demoralised them.

From the hut it is a 1.6 km climb up to the Razorback and then a simple enough 1.6 along the Razorback to the finish.

The 1.6 km climb averages 26% gradient, 430 metres elevation gain.

The first part is 30 plus %.

It is a tough slog and Lisa encouraged me to push on ahead.

I have no idea why but everything felt easy on this day and I soon had the top in sight.

My split for the 1.6 km climb was 36 mins which has been about benchmark the last 5 years. I rolled through to the finish pretty comfortably clocking 2.44 ( not inc the 10 min stop). Lisa and Bec stretched a couple of minutes behind. Not particularly fast but the 2 key climbs were both strong and quick.

Day four. Mystic.

A loop course and the only one not in Nat Park. Much of the course runs through pine plantation for logging and logging work had reached the first part of the course.

11.5 kms with 670 metres of elevation gained and lost.

Just us and Bec's very fit border collie Belle at the start. A couple of cars suggesting some early starters.

It starts with a brief bit of road running then rears up into the forest on 25 to 35% gradients. Our first problem arose about a km in when logging work had our normal course fenced off.

We continued climbing until the next forestry road which eventually lead us back onto the course via a slight downhill.

Back into some steep climbing up to the areas main paragliding launch pad. The pace had been pretty comfortable to this point. From here it is undulating forest roads before climbing a short sharp rise to the high point. I was struggling and dropped back off the pace a few times.

From the high point it is a 30 to 35% gradient descent on loose terrain. It is a skiddy bit of running but we all stayed upright, it eases to about 20 to 25% after a bit and I started pushing to claw back the 100 or so metres gap the ladies had opened. We were soon back as a group as we started the long windy forestry road descent back to the finish. Although we were all trying not to be competitive the 4.39 km pace we averaged, 4.05 to 15 on the smooth bits, suggests otherwise. Running time was 1.29 which is not too far off a race pace.

So unofficial though it was I did get my 35th 4 Peaks done. Good tough running. Not quite race intensity but not far off. Great company and banter. Amazing scenery. Probably the best weather for the 4 days that I have experienced.

We stayed at our favourite spot. It is an old tobacco farm in a place called Ovens halfway between the two bigger towns of Bright and Myrtleford. Mostly hop farms there now. One pub just up the road otherwise farms and forests.

Usually a group of 6 to 10 of us but this year just myself and my wife. Barely any wifi or phone signal a perfect getaway.

Good stuff 'mopac! Fun to read.

Allen1959 wrote:

old guy II wrote:Worst case San Diego Winter is water temp in the low 60s and air temp in the low 50s, maybe high 40s.

Ah, San Diego! I had forgotten your location. A bit different than UP Michigan (or upstate NY where I "be", ha!) I'm dragging our kayaks back into the barn tomorrow.

How cold does it get in your part of the World Allen?

I manage to paddle lakes, rivers and waterholes year round here but our winters aren't cold. Probably coldest I have had has been a few zero celsius mornings but they were clear and windless. Nk idea of water temp.

You asked about "old mate" Al Bennett. You know I did have his address somewhere as he sent me a book on Bowerman once. Buggered if I can find it but it might be tucked away somewhere.

Brittle I think cracked the poos when a few people suggested he stick to posting his training weekly. Also might not have liked some feedback he asked for. Maybe he will wander back one day.

Where have all the 50+ posters gone? How many are still running? Updates would be GREAT! My first post on 50+

Funny thing is this is EXACTLY was still works for me;)

Nine Up Continues with non other than CM aka aka53 from page one of this thread Overall gotta hand the best at aging well trophy to CM;)

Age 68 male. Still averaging about 32 mpw running 4 days and cycling the other three. I have been staying injury free, which I partly attribute to just slogging miles rather than doing a lot of intense speed work. The little speed work I do is occasional fartlek or brief pick-ups during an ordinary run.

Dave, very promising news on your Tenx procedure. Keeping you in my thoughts.

I caught a lucky break with my Achilles injury. After seven days in a boot followed by seven daily strengthening drills; mainly hip area, plus 100 heel dips, it seems to have vanished. I'm keeping my fingers crossed week by week workout by workout as I'm now into the fourth week of Pete Magill's 5k plan with a little KP modifying. The "K-7s" seem to be very effective for me. I get lazy once in a while and skip a day, but I think I've uncovered what we all know and need to be reminded to "Just Do It". Which reminds me, I'm loving the new book "Win At All Costs". After 27 years working for Nike Running and 8 years before working for Reebok Running it's fun to read about something you already knew about and experienced some of it first and secondhand. I highly recommend this book to any Running Geek (Mike F). I advise not getting too deep in what you read as it might make you mad. Just enjoy the stories. We already have enough crap to deal with in our current world.

Good Pete/KP Trackworkout yesterday...

3 x Mile @ 6:30-6:20-6:18 (4min wlak/jog 400 rest)

1 x 800 @ 2:58 (2.5min 400 rest)

1 x 500 @ 1:45 (2.5min 400 rest)

1 x 300 @ 57

Today's recovery (run?) will be brutally stiff, sucky, slow, filled with Portland homeless, and protestors pointing at me for how terrible I look.

Run Well Y'all. It's nearly Turkey Trot Time.

KP

I think the mentality of Win at All Cost you see in any profession. At least that has been my experience. The passion to get a leg up can become the obsession. As old as man, unfortunately.

nice going. injury free is quite an accomplishment!

--dave

fun to see that early CM post. makes me realize that masters running for me, even at the tender age of 53, has been my longest stage of running--3 yrs h.s./5 yrs college/8 yrs open-pro/10 yrs recreational/13 yrs masters.

running the last couple of months has been a bit of a rollercoaster since a hammy/hip issue back in late september. weekly mileage and weakly mileage going back to september 27, after averaging in the 60s before: 26/5/8/32/44/27. the 32 mile week was finished off with the hardest solo sub-5 mile i've ever done (4:59) on my 53rd birthday, giving me 40 different ages of sub-5s (14-53), or 39 different calendar years worth (1982-2020).

i'm likely to crest 50 miles this week as i'm experimenting with more double-days and shorter runs to get my volume back up. so far so good--lots of 4+4 days and trying to re-incorporate strides. i am meeting with a small-ish group of calcoast runners tuesday nights still--i managed 4x800 in 2:31-32 without feeling like i was risking overdoing it.

i, too, miss brittlemaster's regular posts, but maybe he was stung by criticism of his format vs. traditional weekly posts? mopac's post above reminded me of brittlemaster's format--i always fascinated with mopac's adventures and variety. i'm pretty much a one-trick pony, and more often than not too lazy to cross-train.

i'll be glad when the election cycle's over, though of course we still have the ever-present covid cycle with us...

carpe crepusculum,

cush

'mopac wrote:

How cold does it get in your part of the World Allen?

I manage to paddle lakes, rivers and waterholes year round here but our winters aren't cold. Probably coldest I have had has been a few zero celsius mornings but they were clear and windless. Nk idea of water temp.

You asked about "old mate" Al Bennett. You know I did have his address somewhere as he sent me a book on Bowerman once. Buggered if I can find it but it might be tucked away somewhere.

Brittle I think cracked the poos when a few people suggested he stick to posting his training weekly. Also might not have liked some feedback he asked for. Maybe he will wander back one day.

mopac -- your adventures make for an epic read, thanks for sharing.

A few years ago, after I first started posting, I went back and read the entire thread from the start. So, I kinda got to "know" some of the characters. Alan Bennett was still posting frequently, of course, after I joined.

Regarding kayaking, the most convenient place for us is the Erie Canal, which is very sedate, and easy to just hammer a hard effort. But it's drained for the winter. It would freeze, anyway, as do most of the creeks, rivers and lakes around here.

Lake Ontario, despite being the smallest of the Great Lakes, at about 19,000 square kilometers, retains some open water because it's relatively deep. But that would be a dangerous hike from shore!

We've had recent winters during which there are entire weeks with high temperatures below negative 15° Celsius. Much colder than I recall as a child, when single days that cold seemed unusual. Still, relatively mild compared to many places, I suppose.

Stocky Runner wrote:Wow - are you able to do any other type of excercising, either at home or the gym after dark? And it look like you were starting to get your speed back.

I could set the bike up on the trainer, but frankly I'm just too fried by the end of the day. Eat dinner at 8, cleanup until 9, vegetate until 10, sleep until 5:30. I'm weak-willed in many ways, and with no racing, the motivation is weak, too.

Kinda bummed, though, to be losing fitness. Doesn't come back as quickly as it used to. But I'll be adding midday runs when I get my client obligations caught up.

Meanwhile, you seem to be mostly overcoming your obstacles. Much respect for you, sir!

Ha! That was a ways back, eh? We got my wife her own laptop by 2012 and all is good there.

I did hold up pretty well through last year, keeping it up under 17:30 most every year. Big drop off here in 2020, but with no head-to-head racing I've been having a hard time finding that gear. However, workouts are decent and I'm healthy.

We should have a 10 year thread celebration next spring.

Blast From The Past:

Alan Bennet wrote:

Anyway, I just finished the last run of my worst week in months. "Only" 63 slow and achy miles. What went wrong? In a nutshell, I ran too long and too hard on my recovery week 01/02-01/08, therefore didn't recover. So I paid for it this week. Ironically, last Sunday I wrote "good run!!" next to one of those non-recovery mistakes. I'll chalk that up to youthful over-exuberance.

Are you ready to run hard?

Does feeling good after a hard workout confirm benefit?

Oura Ring is pretty darn cool.

If the ring says no I don't go.

If the ring says go I might go.

Kidding? Well it cost 300 bucks and they have a liberal (a word whose meaning has changed ) return policy and I am a tight wad. I am keeping the ring.

Coyote Montane wrote:

We should have a 10 year thread celebration next spring.

Great Idea.

Them old post/posters have some real good nuggets but it would be super cool to get updates with some reflections and plans.

A 10 year celebration post week would keep these updates all in one place in the thread.