This thread was deleted by a volunteer moderator. I certainly don't want a thread this big deleted so I've restored. THat being said, this thread has served it's purpose. I've closed it to new posts.
We have a new 2024 vaccine thread here. New people don't need to try to wade through 20,000 posts to figure out what is going on.
Answered you question previously in post #16610. But math games will only serve to drive people away from vaccine drugs. Anyone can see which reduction is greater 13.2–>0.2 OR 02.—>~0.0. By your logic, a reduction of 1000 deaths/100k to 1 death/100k is not as beneficial as 1 death/100k to 0.00002 deaths/100k.
Large numbers of people are finding out and sharing that the overwhelming amount of death reduction from some childhood illnesses ocurred prior to vaccine drugs. Best way to promote vaccine drugs, IMO, is to avoid over-stating benefits, avoid under-stating adverse effects and look to replace neurotoxic ingredients.
Your reply will be met with:
1) Snarkiness 2) Straw men (I predict a lot) 3) Angrrrrrrr!
I was thinking that we should spam the crap out of these guys because of their insincerity and lack of humility. But, honestly, I think we should all just go away. Just leave. Then there will be two, maybe three, people talking to each other and high fiving. Let them have it. I mean, who actually cares? There was probably a need for this thread back in 2021. But not in 2024.
Novak Djokovic has moved on. He has shown the way. He did a CNN interview where he has no regrets and just wants to focus on the future. He proceeded to win three more slams. What does he have left to prove? He's ok with anyone in a high risk group who wants it receiving the booster. So am I. There's no reason to keep going, well, until the French Open comes around, but Djokovic doesn't play well on clay, so, maybe Wimbledon.
1) Snarkiness 2) Straw men (I predict a lot) 3) Angrrrrrrr!
I was thinking that we should spam the crap out of these guys because of their insincerity and lack of humility. But, honestly, I think we should all just go away. Just leave. Then there will be two, maybe three, people talking to each other and high fiving. Let them have it. I mean, who actually cares? There was probably a need for this thread back in 2021. But not in 2024.
Novak Djokovic has moved on. He has shown the way. He did a CNN interview where he has no regrets and just wants to focus on the future. He proceeded to win three more slams. What does he have left to prove? He's ok with anyone in a high risk group who wants it receiving the booster. So am I. There's no reason to keep going, well, until the French Open comes around, but Djokovic doesn't play well on clay, so, maybe Wimbledon.
Nah. Like Harambro’s obvious long-vax issues, I’ll be around for a long time reminding him of his costly decisions.
Now we are talking about polio? Can't we just stick to HIV and tetanus instead of moving the goalposts yet again?
Pretty much everyone is inoculated versus tetanus in infancy. It's not even remotely the same thing. Tetanus is pretty deadly if not vaccinated against and left untreated, quite unlike Covid in most age and risk categories.
The absolute risk of tetanus is quite low. I thought that's what we cared about? Oh no - only when it helps your case.
We shouldn't vaccinate against some diseases because of how 'scary' they are. We should do it based on the risk vs. rewards. And both COVID and tetanus pass that exceptionally. See: data posted on this thread for years. The vaccine works to prevent hospitalization in children:
Hot take: protecting children from going to the hospital is good.
One last post, and then I am truly gone until May, because I never responded. Yes, the absolute risk of tetanus is lower, but it's completely random. That's the point or should be the point. One can get tetanus from a superficial cat bite without ever knowing it. It doesn't have to be obvious, like a rusty nail, and it could, quite literally, happen to anyone. And the outcome is generally very bad or fatal in almost every case. Quite unlike Covid.
We know HIV is pretty well congregated to homosexuals, bisexuals, IV drug users, and promiscuous people, especially people who, because of their promiscuity, could potentially interact with these groups. In which case, yeah, I would say a HIV vaccine, for them, makes a lot of sense. But not really for anybody else. As long as we've vetted the nation's blood supply. So, yes, I think pre-emptive HAART makes sense here, and with transplants, since I doubt we'll ever have an effective HIV vaccine. But, giving HAART pre-emptively to everyone would be silly and merely promote the reckless behavior. It would create moral hazard.
I appreciate the paper that largely shows CoronaVac prevents child hospitalization. Even as it's supposedly not nearly as effective as mRNA, I think the uptake of an attenuated whole virus vaccine would've and could've been greater.
It's really unfortunate that our public health officials and politicized scientists have endangered the nation's health and preparation for the next pandemic by cultivating the mass skepticism as they have. I know they just love to blame "anti-vaxxers," but they really only have themselves to blame. Just ask Prasad.
Vinay Prasad, MD MPH; Physician & Professor Hematologist/ OncologistProfessor of Epidemiology, Biostatistics and MedicineAuthor of 450+ Peer Reviewed papers,...
In the last 3 months, among your circle of family, friends, co-workers and neighbors who said they took a Covid "vaccine", have those people suffered more illnesses compared to the people you know who said they are unvaxxed ?
Do those vaxxed people have a nagging bad cough while the unvaxxed do not ?
In the last 3 months, among your circle of family, friends, co-workers and neighbors who said they took a Covid "vaccine", have those people suffered more illnesses compared to the people you know who said they are unvaxxed ?
Do those vaxxed people have a nagging bad cough while the unvaxxed do not ?
Among the people who I know their vaccination status, the vaccinated are sick more often. Many have had Covid multiple times despite being vaccinated. One was hospitalized. Those that haven’t had the vax are generally more healthy, don’t get sick and I only know one who had Covid post omicron.
What did you say Harambro? I couldn’t understand it over your persistent cough.😂
When dealing with logarithmically distributed data, it's best to always deal with geometric, rather than arithmetic comparisons. That's what I did to show vaccines caused a greater proportional decrease in the death rate than prior efforts.
You still wont' answer the question though. For someone with so many opinions on the topic:
What do you think is the most likely explanation for the decrease in measles deaths post 1964?
Answered you question previously in post #16610. But math games will only serve to drive people away from vaccine drugs. Anyone can see which reduction is greater 13.2–>0.2 OR 02.—>~0.0. By your logic, a reduction of 1000 deaths/100k to 1 death/100k is not as beneficial as 1 death/100k to 0.00002 deaths/100k.
Large numbers of people are finding out and sharing that the overwhelming amount of death reduction from some childhood illnesses ocurred prior to vaccine drugs. Best way to promote vaccine drugs, IMO, is to avoid over-stating benefits, avoid under-stating adverse effects and look to replace neurotoxic ingredients.
No, you didn't answer. You say a lot of 'would' and 'could' but you refuse to actually say what you think, on the balance is true. It's important to stand behind your beliefs and state with conviction. Otherwise it's clear you're just babbling.
What do you think is the most likely explanation for the decrease in measles deaths post 1964?
You act like sanitation and antibiotics are are some secret of public health. Everyone agrees these were massive advances, but rational people understand that the burden infectious diseases was still huge. I'll explain:
1) Death is not the only thing we care about, especially for small children where serious illness can cause long-term developmental issues. The rate of hospitalization for a measles case was ~1:5 pre-vaccines. At ~500k cases a year pre-vaccines that was almost 100k hospitalizations a year! Of small children!
2) Even if we care about death only (ghoulish for small children – literally discounting hospitalization, maiming, and permanent disability as no big deal), the death rate is still ~0.2%. That's 500 deaths a year of small children in the US pre-vaccination. So, one vaccine alone is responsible for 30,000 children saved and countless more able to live healthy, non-disabled lives.
Cue the "superiors"... but, but, but Covid causes heart disease and undetected clotting!
Long live the world's greatest tennis player who will go down in history as an icon for standing up for medical freedom.
If I don't reappear soon, you can safely assume the split personality stole yet another handle.
Again, this is fascinating work, especially the LNP paper. I watched this Vinay Prasad video twogoggle posted too. Are we just going to dismiss it as more youtube and substack? Prasad has his MD from U Chicago, separate fellowships in oncology and hematology, and an MPH from Johns Hopkins, not exactly an antivax, right-wing think tank. He's a professor of epidemiology at UCSF. In other words, he's way more credentialed than these clowns. Listen to his subtle references to 2600Harambro. And the CDC.
Is he just an "antivaxxer" who is vaccinated or does he also see the disingenuousness of all of these clowns? They wonder why they've alienated everyone. They wonder why no one is taking their advice and has less faith in the CDC than ever before, and why people are more inclined than ever not to get even a flu vaccine! Great work scientists. There's nothing political about what you've done.
They wonder why people would be skeptical about a paper put out by the very same organization that shows that maybe, maybe a fifth vaccine will prevent Covid symptoms for another eight months against the current strain that has already evolved away with all kinds of qualifiers.
But, frame shifting! But, Djokovic has long Covid, I just know it! Nothing I say is disingenuous and I haven't lied, cheated, or mischaracterized ever! Nor have I mocked! Don't listen the Vinay Prasad! Djokovic is an antivaxxer! You guys don't even know the difference between arithmetic and geometric mean or when to use a logarithmic scale! Wahhhhhh!
Yeah man we discussed the Hong Kong study when it came out.
It studied all 40 cases of vaccine-induced myocarditis they found in Hong Kong (7m people)... and... all 40 had normal ECGs at follow up at follow up, and all 40 have clinically acceptable echocardiogram results at followup!
So the MC wasn't serious, no lasting damage.
Appreciate you confirming the even the worst known adverse effects from vaccines are short-term and fully recoverable!
The absolute risk of tetanus is quite low. I thought that's what we cared about? Oh no - only when it helps your case.
We shouldn't vaccinate against some diseases because of how 'scary' they are. We should do it based on the risk vs. rewards. And both COVID and tetanus pass that exceptionally. See: data posted on this thread for years. The vaccine works to prevent hospitalization in children:
Hot take: protecting children from going to the hospital is good.
One last post, and then I am truly gone until May, because I never responded. Yes, the absolute risk of tetanus is lower, but it's completely random. That's the point or should be the point. One can get tetanus from a superficial cat bite without ever knowing it. It doesn't have to be obvious, like a rusty nail, and it could, quite literally, happen to anyone. And the outcome is generally very bad or fatal in almost every case. Quite unlike Covid.
We know HIV is pretty well congregated to homosexuals, bisexuals, IV drug users, and promiscuous people, especially people who, because of their promiscuity, could potentially interact with these groups. In which case, yeah, I would say a HIV vaccine, for them, makes a lot of sense. But not really for anybody else. As long as we've vetted the nation's blood supply. So, yes, I think pre-emptive HAART makes sense here, and with transplants, since I doubt we'll ever have an effective HIV vaccine. But, giving HAART pre-emptively to everyone would be silly and merely promote the reckless behavior. It would create moral hazard.
I appreciate the paper that largely shows CoronaVac prevents child hospitalization. Even as it's supposedly not nearly as effective as mRNA, I think the uptake of an attenuated whole virus vaccine would've and could've been greater.
It's really unfortunate that our public health officials and politicized scientists have endangered the nation's health and preparation for the next pandemic by cultivating the mass skepticism as they have. I know they just love to blame "anti-vaxxers," but they really only have themselves to blame. Just ask Prasad.
1) Agrees vaccinating for tetanus is good but COVID is bad despite it killing less people than COVID. Remember, we are rational adults. We don't make decisions because one thing is scarier than another. We use the numbers.
2) Clearly is just scared of mRNA vaccines. Would literally take a poorly documented vaccine from China that is shown to work less well (i.e. leads to more dead children) because it feels more normal.
3) Posts Prasad, who at this point is just a grifter taking $$ from antivaxxers. The reason booster uptake is low is because the initial round of shots worked really well. All the pearl clutching by these contrarians about "skepticism" and "distrust" is, as I said, primarily driven by these grifters who cultivate distrust by putting out misinformation.
I.e. Man who has spent the last 4 years attacking mainstream medicine with misinformation from a position of respect and trust says "why are people trusting medicine less." You can't make this stuff up it's so comical.
Anyway, enjoy the time off. I always outlast the antivaxxers, it's my sworn duty. Until we meet again.
Again, this is fascinating work, especially the LNP paper. I watched this Vinay Prasad video twogoggle posted too. Are we just going to dismiss it as more youtube and substack? Prasad has his MD from U Chicago, separate fellowships in oncology and hematology, and an MPH from Johns Hopkins, not exactly an antivax, right-wing think tank. He's a professor of epidemiology at UCSF. In other words, he's way more credentialed than these clowns. Listen to his subtle references to 2600Harambro. And the CDC.
Is he just an "antivaxxer" who is vaccinated or does he also see the disingenuousness of all of these clowns? They wonder why they've alienated everyone. They wonder why no one is taking their advice and has less faith in the CDC than ever before, and why people are more inclined than ever not to get even a flu vaccine! Great work scientists. There's nothing political about what you've done.
They wonder why people would be skeptical about a paper put out by the very same organization that shows that maybe, maybe a fifth vaccine will prevent Covid symptoms for another eight months against the current strain that has already evolved away with all kinds of qualifiers.
But, frame shifting! But, Djokovic has long Covid, I just know it! Nothing I say is disingenuous and I haven't lied, cheated, or mischaracterized ever! Nor have I mocked! Don't listen the Vinay Prasad! Djokovic is an antivaxxer! You guys don't even know the difference between arithmetic and geometric mean or when to use a logarithmic scale! Wahhhhhh!
Yeah man we discussed the Hong Kong study when it came out.
It studied all 40 cases of vaccine-induced myocarditis they found in Hong Kong (7m people)... and... all 40 had normal ECGs at follow up at follow up, and all 40 have clinically acceptable echocardiogram results at followup!
So the MC wasn't serious, no lasting damage.
Appreciate you confirming the even the worst known adverse effects from vaccines are short-term and fully recoverable!
Prasad lol. What is this 2022?
Yup and remember that you have a 7x higher chance of getting myocarditis from unvaccinated COVID infection vs the vaccine:
BackgroundThis study aimed to compare the incidence of myocarditis in COVID-19 vaccines and in severe acute respiratory syndrome-coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection groups.MethodsElectronic databases (MEDLINE, Scopus, Cochra...
One last post, and then I am truly gone until May, because I never responded. Yes, the absolute risk of tetanus is lower, but it's completely random. That's the point or should be the point. One can get tetanus from a superficial cat bite without ever knowing it. It doesn't have to be obvious, like a rusty nail, and it could, quite literally, happen to anyone. And the outcome is generally very bad or fatal in almost every case. Quite unlike Covid.
We know HIV is pretty well congregated to homosexuals, bisexuals, IV drug users, and promiscuous people, especially people who, because of their promiscuity, could potentially interact with these groups. In which case, yeah, I would say a HIV vaccine, for them, makes a lot of sense. But not really for anybody else. As long as we've vetted the nation's blood supply. So, yes, I think pre-emptive HAART makes sense here, and with transplants, since I doubt we'll ever have an effective HIV vaccine. But, giving HAART pre-emptively to everyone would be silly and merely promote the reckless behavior. It would create moral hazard.
I appreciate the paper that largely shows CoronaVac prevents child hospitalization. Even as it's supposedly not nearly as effective as mRNA, I think the uptake of an attenuated whole virus vaccine would've and could've been greater.
It's really unfortunate that our public health officials and politicized scientists have endangered the nation's health and preparation for the next pandemic by cultivating the mass skepticism as they have. I know they just love to blame "anti-vaxxers," but they really only have themselves to blame. Just ask Prasad.
1) Agrees vaccinating for tetanus is good but COVID is bad despite it killing less people than COVID. Remember, we are rational adults. We don't make decisions because one thing is scarier than another. We use the numbers.
2) Clearly is just scared of mRNA vaccines. Would literally take a poorly documented vaccine from China that is shown to work less well (i.e. leads to more dead children) because it feels more normal.
3) Posts Prasad, who at this point is just a grifter taking $ from antivaxxers. The reason booster uptake is low is because the initial round of shots worked really well. All the pearl clutching by these contrarians about "skepticism" and "distrust" is, as I said, primarily driven by these grifters who cultivate distrust by putting out misinformation.
I.e. Man who has spent the last 4 years attacking mainstream medicine with misinformation from a position of respect and trust says "why are people trusting medicine less." You can't make this stuff up it's so comical.
Anyway, enjoy the time off. I always outlast the antivaxxers, it's my sworn duty. Until we meet again.
One last post, and then I am truly gone until May, because I never responded. Yes, the absolute risk of tetanus is lower, but it's completely random. That's the point or should be the point. One can get tetanus from a superficial cat bite without ever knowing it. It doesn't have to be obvious, like a rusty nail, and it could, quite literally, happen to anyone. And the outcome is generally very bad or fatal in almost every case. Quite unlike Covid.
We know HIV is pretty well congregated to homosexuals, bisexuals, IV drug users, and promiscuous people, especially people who, because of their promiscuity, could potentially interact with these groups. In which case, yeah, I would say a HIV vaccine, for them, makes a lot of sense. But not really for anybody else. As long as we've vetted the nation's blood supply. So, yes, I think pre-emptive HAART makes sense here, and with transplants, since I doubt we'll ever have an effective HIV vaccine. But, giving HAART pre-emptively to everyone would be silly and merely promote the reckless behavior. It would create moral hazard.
I appreciate the paper that largely shows CoronaVac prevents child hospitalization. Even as it's supposedly not nearly as effective as mRNA, I think the uptake of an attenuated whole virus vaccine would've and could've been greater.
It's really unfortunate that our public health officials and politicized scientists have endangered the nation's health and preparation for the next pandemic by cultivating the mass skepticism as they have. I know they just love to blame "anti-vaxxers," but they really only have themselves to blame. Just ask Prasad.
Anyway, enjoy the time off. I always outlast the antivaxxers, it's my sworn duty. Until we meet again.
Yeah, let's be clear... you didn't outlast anyone, and it's funny that I'm up to date on all my vaccines except Covid. It's that your narcissist, self-aggrandizing schtick gets really boring after awhile, so why feed it? Besides, I'm not sure I'll have a handle to come back to since your approach when you disagree with someone is to silence them. Honorable.
Anyway, enjoy the time off. I always outlast the antivaxxers, it's my sworn duty. Until we meet again.
Yeah, let's be clear... you didn't outlast anyone, and it's funny that I'm up to date on all my vaccines except Covid. It's that your narcissist, self-aggrandizing schtick gets really boring after awhile, so why feed it? Besides, I'm not sure I'll have a handle to come back to since your approach when you disagree with someone is to silence them. Honorable.
You're leaving. I'm not. The literal definition of outlast.
I find it very easy to defend my side. Perhaps it is too tiring for those with less evidence-backed positions.
Yeah, let's be clear... you didn't outlast anyone, and it's funny that I'm up to date on all my vaccines except Covid. It's that your narcissist, self-aggrandizing schtick gets really boring after awhile, so why feed it? Besides, I'm not sure I'll have a handle to come back to since your approach when you disagree with someone is to silence them. Honorable.
You're leaving. I'm not. The literal definition of outlast.
I find it very easy to defend my side. Perhaps it is too tiring for those with less evidence-backed positions.
If it’s so easy, why are you having such a difficult time defending your position? You’ve had 800 pages to do it, yet have failed on every account.
Yeah, let's be clear... you didn't outlast anyone, and it's funny that I'm up to date on all my vaccines except Covid. It's that your narcissist, self-aggrandizing schtick gets really boring after awhile, so why feed it? Besides, I'm not sure I'll have a handle to come back to since your approach when you disagree with someone is to silence them. Honorable.
You're leaving. I'm not. The literal definition of outlast.
I find it very easy to defend my side. Perhaps it is too tiring for those with less evidence-backed positions.
Because you're a lying, cheating, egomaniacal narcissist. A narcissist who, when he thought he wasn't going to outlast the people he disagreed with, started stealing their handles. Why keep debating a clown like that? It's the very definition of dishonesty. Gee, I wonder why nobody listens to you or your health authorities?
Yeah man we discussed the Hong Kong study when it came out.
It studied all 40 cases of vaccine-induced myocarditis they found in Hong Kong (7m people)... and... all 40 had normal ECGs at follow up at follow up, and all 40 have clinically acceptable echocardiogram results at followup!
So the MC wasn't serious, no lasting damage.
Appreciate you confirming the even the worst known adverse effects from vaccines are short-term and fully recoverable!
Prasad lol. What is this 2022?
Yup and remember that you have a 7x higher chance of getting myocarditis from unvaccinated COVID infection vs the vaccine:
Yeah, interesting that you don't comment on the LNP paper or Prasad's video, even as Prasad is correct. You didn't even bother to watch because you know he has you guys pegged.
Shocking you "two" appeared at the very same time. When does the handle stealing begin anew, because I want to know what to post with the next time Djokovic proves you're a fool?
You're leaving. I'm not. The literal definition of outlast.
I find it very easy to defend my side. Perhaps it is too tiring for those with less evidence-backed positions.
Because you're a lying, cheating, egomaniacal narcissist. A narcissist who, when he thought he wasn't going to outlast the people he disagreed with, started stealing their handles. Why keep debating a clown like that? It's the very definition of dishonesty. Gee, I wonder why nobody listens to you or your health authorities?
How can you argue with someone who says that if an unvaxxed person gets covid, they have no immune system. It’s gone. Destroyed.
This is the level discourse we’re dealing with here. 🤦♂️ No wonder there have been 800 pages and they can’t defend their argument.
