50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

Great job with the race, KCgeezer! 4th place overall behind three 20-somethings ain’t bad. And that Fiona Bayly is really something! Too bad she couldn’t quite pull off the overall female win—she was close.

lucKY2b, I agree with Rtype that work comes before running, unless of course you’re a professional runner. I think I’m lucky that my administration decided a couple of weeks ago to go totally online for fall semester. Online teaching sucks but at least we know exactly where we stand.

Rtype, I agree with your treatment of a (hopefully) minor injury. Just resting it and letting it heal by itself has typically worked better for me than anything else. I sure hope it doesn’t zero out your race next week.

I’m delighted to see that the London Marathon appears to be a go, even if it’s only a handful of elites running laps around a park. Bekele vs Kipchoge, my mouth is watering. If Bekele can manage to get to the starting line fit, this could be quite the event!

It took me a couple of days to rehydrate and replenish my glycogen stores after my backpacking trip, but I ended up with a decent week, 72 miles for the week including a “long run” of 13.3 miles on Saturday. It’s pathetic that this is what now constitutes a long run, but it’s the longest I’ve run since developing this autoimmune disease in late March.

Keeping this falling-apart old body going at all is a lot of work. Finding shoes that won’t irritate either the Achilles tendinosis on my right foot or the usually dormant Morton’s neuroma on my left is quite a task. In September of 2018 I stumbled onto what appeared to be the perfect shoe, the Nike LunarTempo 2, only to discover that it was already discontinued. I rationed my original pair for nearly two years, wearing them only for long races and long training runs. I continued to search for another pair in my size and finally found one last fall, and kept them in the box in my closet. 12 days ago I finally decided that the original ones were just too beat-up to continue wearing, so I threw them out of my rotation and put the new ones in. On my first run I was about six miles in when my neuroma started talking to me, and by the time I got home I felt like I had a knife in the bottom of my forefoot. The original LunarTempos had never bothered my neuroma, and these are nominally the exact same model, same size, just a different color. So today I cautiously tried them again, planning a short run anyway since I felt a little beat-up from yesterday. This time there was only some mild discomfort after seven miles, but I’m not sure how they would have felt after 10 or 12. Perhaps I’ll try transplanting the insoles from my beat-up pair to the new ones and see if that helps.

Stay healthy and let’s hope for more real races real soon.

Nice race KC and thanks for the report. How did the strategically placed water bottles work?

KC, excellent time for the 1/2! I am settling back into a more consistent training pattern again that also is more of a run less, run faster approach than my earlier training this year. I have traded two running days for two surfing days, which probably will last until winter temps make me less enthusiastic about getting in the ocean. 35 miles for this week -

M- 7mi walk plus strides

T- 1hr surf

W- 8mi hills 9:41/mi

Th- 1hr surf

F- 7mi walk plus strides

S- 6mi trails with my son 8:29/mi

S- 7mi walk plus strides

Good running to all!

wow, nice race. very impressive time in any conditions, let alone high humidity. Good job of staying focused thru the delays. I remember being at a big evening race once that was delayed multiple times due to lightning. After about 45 mins. of standing around chatting with friends, and passing rumors back and forth about start time, I realized I was in a "this isn't happening" non-competitive, not-anxious frame of mind and would have had difficulty being ready to race. In the end it was cancelled, so who knows?

fun first full week of August for me:

M 1:15

Tu 30:00

W 45:00

Th 1:10 with drills and strides

F 1:00

Sa 50:00 (and canoeing)

Su 1:45 -- start of 90-day training cycle for 10-mile time trial

have a great week,

Dave

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Nice race KC and thanks for the report. How did the strategically placed water bottles work?

Even better, because the rain washed out my sister’s bike ride – Clinton is the start of a very popular bike trail — she did bottle duty instead. She stood at the same intersection, where there were two different turns in the race, and got me a bottle of much-needed electrolyte both times. I was then able to use the water bottles that were laid out along the route for pouring over my head and cooling off.

Not that it all went smoothly. I ran past the first water table, which was not staffed by volunteers, and had to circle back to grab one. Another time I made a wrong turn and had to go dashing back to the trail after getting my bottle. And on one of the handoffs, I surprised my sister by showing up a couple minutes early. She had to run with the bottle to catch up with me!

KC, well done and it must be great to run a damn race in the midst of it all.

amk good luck with the neuroma aaagh it does not sound like any fun at all, but hey a good week for you.

I ran twice this week, a 4.3 mile "back and out" as it were from the far end on my creek trail. I wanted to test where I am at, so:

WED - 37:31 / 75% effort

SUN - 37:24 / 80% effort

Not too fit at present but it does feel good to move around a bit. Left achilles tendon still sore. In truth I'm planning on another month of 90% rest. I want this tendon good so I can start a decent maraton build, no sense messing it up with running when I shouldn't.

Good running to all.

61.5 yo male 150lb It's the dog days of summer everybody hot and sluggish bc of the heat. It won't be long about 3- 4 weeks change will start gradually. Ac unit still not fix part need to be order. Thank God for the lower level unit. Felt like somebody was shaking the house for about 30 sec this morning. Told the wifey don't be surprised if we had an earthquake. An later on the news reports an earthquake near our area.

Did 6.98 after yesterday's workout legs felt heavy & fatigue. Out back run firts part easy to moderate then 2nd part did about 6 pickups for about 40s to a minute. 59:17 total time for ave 829/m. Tempature 76deg.

Cheers to yall.

daily 50 minutes slogs

5k effort for 5 minutes in the sand

4x20 seconds sand slight downhill sprints

4x 30 seconds all out on the bike standup sprinting

6 miles on bark rexius in eugene first 4 at 8 mm last 2 at 7mm

hr 132 at 8 minutes a mile and 144 at 7 which is about the same hr/pace when I was running 17:30 for 5k. No where near that right now but it is a good sign as I just finished up 2 years of easy sand dune running. I am considering an increase in volume via doubles.

based upon heart rates wag 10:30 pace in sand is about 8 minute pace on bark.

I assume you've checked already, but Amazon pretty regularly has Lunar Tempo 2s in some sizes. As of 5 minutes ago, they have sizes 5.5, 6, 6.5, and 7 in women's. I just finished my last pair of Lunar Tempo 1s after 300 miles and started a pair of 2s (men's 9.5).

JamesD2 wrote:

I assume you've checked already, but Amazon pretty regularly has Lunar Tempo 2s in some sizes. As of 5 minutes ago, they have sizes 5.5, 6, 6.5, and 7 in women's. I just finished my last pair of Lunar Tempo 1s after 300 miles and started a pair of 2s (men's 9.5).

Thanks for the suggestion. I actually haven't checked in a while since it seemed I had exhausted the supply in my size half a year ago, but things have a way of popping up so you're right, I should check from time to time. Unfortunately I wear a pretty popular size (men's 7.5-8.0, women's 9.0-9.5) and there don't seem to be any available.

Right now I wouldn't buy another pair anyway unless/until I find that my second pair will work for me as well as the first pair did. I'm not yet sure of that.

Allen1959 wrote:

M61 5'11" 183 lbs

Goals: Regain, maintain basic fitness; reduce weight; maybe get back to road-race participation.

If you lose 50 pounds, you will be 5'11", 133 pounds, which will put you at 18.5 BMI. That is the bottom of the normal range.

But it's still in the normal range. As an Army lieutenant I knew used to say, when he would do the minimum number of required pushups to pass the fitness test and then stop, "That's good enough. If it wasn't good enough, it wouldn't be the standard." Not an exact parallel but I just remembered that anecdote. :-)

If you lost 50 pounds off your current weight, you would be an AWESOME runner. Just lose 2 pounds a week, and you will get there in 25 weeks. Meanwhile do some regular strength work, to minimize muscle loss during your weight loss process.

There's hardly any races on the calendar this year anyway. It's a good time to transform your body without the stress of racing. By January, there may be races again. You could be 50 pounds lighter, still in normal BMI range, and set up to start running some AWESOME times.

I'm perfectly serious. You could do this. Lose your old-man dead weight and make it happen. You won't be as fast as when you were 17, but you will be faster than you are now.

Greetings, fellow masters. I am pleased to report a good week with 18+ miles of actual running. Two days were reduced due to heat and humidity, but I also had a pair of “normal” days including a few brief touches of “speed” on Friday. Despite the rising heat, I thought today’s run might be north of 50’, but I saw the HR at a relatively high point at the 40’ mark and judiciously decided to cut it short. Still a good week overall. The heat has returned, so it could be a challenge to replicate that volume this week. Time will tell.

Mon: 42’ CR; swim; body wt ex + med ball routine

Tues: off

Wed: 53’ CR; swim; body wt ex + med ball routine

Thu: off

Fri: 54’ CR w/ 6 x 40y pick ups; swim; body wt ex + med ball routine

Sat: off

Sun: 44’ CR; body wt ex

Best to most!

Brittle Master 1958 wrote:

If you lose 50 pounds, you will be 5'11", 133 pounds, which will put you at 18.5 BMI. That is the bottom of the normal range.

If 50 pounds is too extreme for you, then lose 40 pounds and get down to 143 pounds.

That would put you at 19.9 BMI which is a little tubby for a world-class distance runner, but still a lot better than where you are now.

Don't take my comments personally; I'm talking about science here. Force-weight ratios.

Actually Steve Prefontaine was 5'9", 139, which put him at 20.5 BMI, and I seem to recall he did all right. But I remember the British TV announcer calling him "the chunky American runner" during the Olympic final, and who wants some cheeky Brit calling you "chunky"? If you get down to 133, no one will call you chunky. ;-)

Brittle Master 1958 wrote:

If you get down to 133, no one will call you chunky.

Although frankly, if you get down to 133, you will have to put up with whatever names people call you, because at 5'11", 133, you won't be winning any bar fights. And you may need your wife's help moving heavy furniture.

Brittle Master, no one else will say it but I think you are way too hung up on BMI.

Coyote Montane wrote:

Brittle Master, no one else will say it but I think you are way too hung up on BMI.

It's not about BMI, it's about weight.

To me, BMI is just a shorthand way to compare body weight across a population of individuals with different heights.

In other words, BMI is like age-grading. It's a way to compare apples to oranges.

For a distance runner, the goal should be to be as light as possible, until it hurts your performance. If it hurts your performance, you are probably too light.

I could say, some people are way too hung up on age-grading. Age-grading has its uses, but in reality, what everyone should do is try to become the best runner that HE or SHE can become. Age-grading is a way of comparing yourself to other people, which is great, but can lead to tremendous frustration because ultimately most of us will continue to fall short, just as we fell short in open competitions when we were younger. All of us, IMO, should be comparing what we are now against our potential. That is the true competition: to be your best self.

Brittle Master 1958 wrote:

I'm perfectly serious. You could do this. Lose your old-man dead weight and make it happen. You won't be as fast as when you were 17, but you will be faster than you are now.

Um, yeah, 133. Sure! I was thin at 17, and weighed 155 (4:45 mile). I was skinny at 23, but lifting some, and weighed 160 (2:40 marathon). I was deathly thin at 58, and weighed 157 (3:07 marathon). At 59, I was 160ish, admittedly with a bit of a belly, but still gaunt otherwise. In case you doubt, I'll post a couple photos when I get home from work tonight.

KC -- Spectacular half marathon and a great write-up. Since you started posting here, it seems you've seen tremendous gains. If you get a chance, could you share a synopsis of your progression -- would love to see that.

Brittle Master 1958 wrote:

BMI is like age-grading. It's a way to compare apples to oranges.

This is simply not true. BMI is a standard calculation that does not factor for gender or age. And besides, NIH says it’s not the most useful measure for fit people:

The analogy to age-related grading is measuring body fat. For instance, older men should carry more body fat than younger men. But that requires a special home scale, and body fat taken from a DEXA scan is more accurate than a home body fat scale. Even then, there is no universally agreed-upon floor like 18.5 for body fat.

So BMI wins when you’re looking for a quick and easy measure with all the caveats. That said, many champion distance runners have won with BMI’s in the 20 and 21 range. Bottom line, Allen has already set a commendable goal and he just needs to go for it.

Allen1959 wrote:

Sure! I was thin at 17, and weighed 155 (4:45 mile). I was skinny at 23, but lifting some, and weighed 160 (2:40 marathon). I was deathly thin at 58, and weighed 157 (3:07 marathon). At 59, I was 160ish, admittedly with a bit of a belly, but still gaunt otherwise. In case you doubt, I'll post a couple photos when I get home from work tonight.

Those are all fine times, and I give you a lot of respect for them.

However, if you really think those body weights are "thin, skinny, deathly thin," and "gaunt" as you wrote, you must have lead bones.

Frank Shorter at 5'10", 134 was "thin." Harald Norpoth at 6'0" 137 was "skinny." Seb Coe at 5'9", 119 was "gaunt."

(I won't try to compare these runners among themselves by giving BMI numbers, in hope of averting Coyote Montane's wrath. But he has to promise not to mention age-grading anymore.)