SUBSTANTIATED (damned thumbs)
SUBSTANTIATED (damned thumbs)
Jenny should just shut up and run
CNN wrote:
I love Engles...BUT...at 1:51 he says he didn't know anything about charges when he joined the group....then at 4:16 he says he asked Peter about it "before he joined the group....Somewhere in there lies the truth.
Yeah, I picked this up as well and am surprised that people aren't jumping on it. Engels clearly isn't being 100% honest in his responses. He slipped here and obviously is trying to hide at least one facet of this issue.
Great interview though and kudos to him for sticking around and talking when the subject came up.
What exactly has he achieved again? wrote:
It's actually refreshing when someone gets in front a camera and tells you exactly how they feel. Also not surprised the hate that comes if that person happens to be female. It's so much better than the canned PR response 99% of people give who are too afraid to go against the machine and put themselves out there.
Yeah, that’s exactly what the world needs, more critics, more negativity, more haters, and more uneducated opinions.
seikosha wrote:
CNN wrote:
I love Engles...BUT...at 1:51 he says he didn't know anything about charges when he joined the group....then at 4:16 he says he asked Peter about it "before he joined the group....Somewhere in there lies the truth.
Yeah, I picked this up as well and am surprised that people aren't jumping on it. Engels clearly isn't being 100% honest in his responses. He slipped here and obviously is trying to hide at least one facet of this issue.
Great interview though and kudos to him for sticking around and talking when the subject came up.
The way I understood that exchange is that Engels asked Pete about the general rumors (aka dark clouds) surrounding NOP, not about the specific charges against Salazar.
innohurry wrote:
C'mon Craig and the Nike apologists. We all know the only reason that Salazar's sunstantiated rule-breaking predates many current Nike athletes' pro careers is because none of their current athletes have the ethics to say no and blow the whistle.
What Dathan and Kara were saying years ago about AlSal's l-carntitine, thyroid, and testosterone "experiments" guaranteed that anyone joining NOP after that was okay with that kind of program.
Dathan, lol...
You wanna know what speaks louder than accusations directed at one’s former coach?
Running 12:56 under said coach...
Notice how Dathan can’t even toe the line or finish a race once he has, so NOW we’re hearing the dirt. Convenient.
__
Wake the fvck up. No one’s saying Salazar isn’t guilty. Some of us are saying the case is flimsy and politically motivated. Some of us without inflated notions of moral superiority are pointing out that every one of these accusers has a dog in this fight and it ain’t about doing the “right” thing. Not primarily, if I’m going to even slightly entertain giving benefit of the doubt to these people.
It’s about retaliation. It’s about justifying one’s own shortcomings relative to others’. It’s about remaining relevant in a cruel, unforgiving sport. It’s about being hypercompetitive in too many aspects of life. Pick and choose. Mix and match. Whatever it is, I’m not buying anything to do with conscience. There are no heroes in this mess. There are winners and losers, make no mistake— the loudest have worn both hats and just can’t stand it.
Goldman Sachs has been convicted of numerous crimes, and had billions in fines levied. Does that mean that no honest person interested in finance should ever consider working for them?
NOP is the GS of athletics. For an individual considering any offer to train with this group, it is both an endorsement of ones own talent and accomplishments, and a mind blowing opportunity for further improvement, not to mention really cool and fun. It would be extremely hard to justify turning something like this down.
This is the 2nd time NKE had been associated with this type of organized leger de main. Athletics West was a full blown doping factory owned and operated by NKE. They were somewhat luckier in the late 80s, as they only had to contest with a dead athlete (Jeff Drenth). Shut it all down and move it to Kenya. But they couldn't help themselves, esp when Salazar essentially said, "I'll run cover for you".
It is hard for an individual athlete to know all of this when you are 21, and completely inexperienced in how the world works. Jenny Simpson has the benefit of hindsight, and is using that to jdugementally preach to her competitors.
BabyDick Johnson wrote:
Goldman Sachs has been convicted of numerous crimes, and had billions in fines levied. Does that mean that no honest person interested in finance should ever consider working for them?
This right here. Or to the same account, can no football player play for a school that has had recruiting violations levied against them?
Dopers always support dopers...
Good for Craig.
Why are so many of these American women so bitc#y?
Intergalactic wrote:
Fun interview. But funny how he says he hasn't read the report and then immediately after lights up when asked if he supports Salazar's appeal which he vociferously and zealously does.
A middle-class white man spouting off when he isn't qualified to do so?
SHOCKING.
Dixie Chuck wrote:
Jenny should just shut up and run
Yeah, that attitude was great for cycling. Also for running in the EPO-fueled 90s.
You are pathetic. Don't project your cowardice on others.
maskedfox007 wrote:
BabyDick Johnson wrote:
Goldman Sachs has been convicted of numerous crimes, and had billions in fines levied. Does that mean that no honest person interested in finance should ever consider working for them?
This right here. Or to the same account, can no football player play for a school that has had recruiting violations levied against them?
You can. But when you get laid off to pay those billions in fines, or your football team gets suspended from the post season for more violations, you've got nobody to blame but yourself. Maybe choose Wisconsin over Florida next time.
Jenny B Brave wrote:
Dixie Chuck wrote:
Jenny should just shut up and run
Yeah, that attitude was great for cycling. Also for running in the EPO-fueled 90s.
You are pathetic. Don't project your cowardice on others.
She for sure should shut up and run. The cyclists themselves didn't clean up their own sport. Complaining and bitc#ing never solved anything. Let the lawyers and investigators do their jobs with actual facts, actual process, not conjecture.
BabyDick Johnson wrote:
Goldman Sachs has been convicted of numerous crimes, and had billions in fines levied. Does that mean that no honest person interested in finance should ever consider working for them?
NOP is the GS of athletics. For an individual considering any offer to train with this group, it is both an endorsement of ones own talent and accomplishments, and a mind blowing opportunity for further improvement, not to mention really cool and fun. It would be extremely hard to justify turning something like this down.
This is the 2nd time NKE had been associated with this type of organized leger de main. Athletics West was a full blown doping factory owned and operated by NKE. They were somewhat luckier in the late 80s, as they only had to contest with a dead athlete (Jeff Drenth). Shut it all down and move it to Kenya. But they couldn't help themselves, esp when Salazar essentially said, "I'll run cover for you".
It is hard for an individual athlete to know all of this when you are 21, and completely inexperienced in how the world works. Jenny Simpson has the benefit of hindsight, and is using that to jdugementally preach to her competitors.
I agree with this for the most part. If I’m being honest I thought about disputing the finance analogy but I really couldn’t. Maybe there is more pure amateur love of running among athletes in professional groups at large because at least some of them could make comparable money in the short term with a specific career; surely more investing in career long-term, but this sh!t is a business like all others.
I think it was uncovered that NOP athletes earn more relative to other groups and doing so lends itself to the Goldman analogy— covering the spectrum of very talented hard worker (separated/elevated above other talented hard workers) to ruthless win-at-all costs types like Mo Farah (in my opinion).
But for people to say that those employed by JP Morgan, HSBC Cartel Blood Money Laundering Services or Soros Fund Management and Currency Manipulation— to use consistent analogies— as opposed to Goldman are so patently different because they may not have been indicted is so ridiculously unidimensional that it guarantees in-/out-group biases in the criticism being levied.
Remember who took the fall for the sub-prime mortgage lending scam? Me either.
But we all know who Bernie Madoff is...
“The lady doth protest too much, methinks...”
BabyDick Johnson wrote:
Goldman Sachs has been convicted of numerous crimes, and had billions in fines levied. Does that mean that no honest person interested in finance should ever consider working for them?
It is hard for an individual athlete to know all of this when you are 21, and completely inexperienced in how the world works. Jenny Simpson has the benefit of hindsight, and is using that to jdugementally preach to her competitors.
Really stupid analogy. Nike is a sprawling organization, and I doubt anyone's going to fault someone who picks up a minimum wage job in one of their stores somewhere in the country selling shoes and apparel. Just like I wouldn't fault someone for working as a secretary at GS.
Craig is an adult and made decisions of which he needs to take ownership.
seikosha wrote:
CNN wrote:
I love Engles...BUT...at 1:51 he says he didn't know anything about charges when he joined the group....then at 4:16 he says he asked Peter about it "before he joined the group....Somewhere in there lies the truth.
Yeah, I picked this up as well and am surprised that people aren't jumping on it. Engels clearly isn't being 100% honest in his responses. He slipped here and obviously is trying to hide at least one facet of this issue.
Great interview though and kudos to him for sticking around and talking when the subject came up.
Yep. He exposed himself in a pretty major way right there. He knew all about it, and he *chose* to ignore it, and just pretend to accept the bullsh*t excuses they peddled.
This hits too close to home for Engels. 80 percent chance someone will rat him out and he will down as doper. Good luck with the rest of your career Engels, I didn't care for you much anyway.
Creaky Bones wrote:
really wrote:
I admittedly know and follow this stuff less than probably anyone commenting here and generally root for all Americans in championship races but... Does Engels really believe that Salazar was just trying to see how someone would react to being "brushed" with testosterone cream when he put it on his son??
Seems more credible if you read the testimony. Agreed it seems pretty stupid on its face, and I think Engels acknowledged that in his interview.
+1 I always thought that was a ridiculous excuse but seems like it was actually true if you read the report. Seems he was more worried about someone intentionally rubbing it on his athletes to sabotage them though, not just "brushing" them accidentally.
Engels and these other new NOP athletes probably are clean, but don't want to admit that they knowingly went to a shady coach and training group just because it was the best $$ they could get. If you want to risk your reputation for $$ that's fine, but have the courage to own that decision when you get called on it.