Sub-20 5k or bust!

Re-created 30-second run, HR 126. Either HR was wrong, or the swimming and time spent between 1500-3000m elevationhad some effect?. Yes, an error.

Did 30 more mins at 6mph, felt really easy but HR was 151 at finish.

Encouraging, after the long break. 27 or 28 seconds coming up next!

With you being a sprinter, if I was you I would do a lot of strides for like 30 minutes like 2-3 times a week.

Thread title is "Sub-20 5k or bust". There's been plenty of solid advice on how to achieve that - and none of it followed. Plenty of obsessing about shoes and heart rates and pointless workouts - and near-nada goal-specific training. This thread is troll bait and a circle-jerk of mediocrity.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Re-created 30-second run, HR 126. Either HR was wrong, or the swimming and time spent between 1500-3000m elevationhad some effect?. Yes, an error.

Did 30 more mins at 6mph, felt really easy but HR was 151 at finish.

Encouraging, after the long break. 27 or 28 seconds coming up next!

My “easy long run” is 40 mins (30 today because of dinner timing), about 3x per week, on the advice of posters here. Did 60 mins on Fri or Sat.

No calf or fasciitis issues so far, which is great. Slight tightness in right ham, doesn’t feel bad.

I think I’m going to get this, it feels good!

if you want to use an example of what not to do , here's what not to do:

start as a early-40-something off-the-couch-never a runner

baseline yourself around a 28 minute 5k, and be like 25# overweight

then, obsess endlessly over stuff that doesnt matter. Jog like 15-20 mpw of junk

Run some exceedingly rare goal-race paced workouts like only twice a year, before your 'big PR attempt', eventually get down to 20:12, and then injure yourself for good.

Honestly the only 'workout' that I ever did [the one that probably injured me fwiw] was the weekly 'long slow run' that was maybe 60% of my weekly mileage [generally accepted thats about 2x too much I guess]

BUT, in the absence of a 'great' routine, the 'do something' one like I followed might get you there, what do I know.

But I spent super limited amount of time at tempo/lactate [virtually none] and even more limited time at/about race-pace + 15-30s/mile pace for intervals.

If I had to do it again, given I get injured all the time, I'd do it on elliptical/swim/bike/weights and when my delicate soft tissues can handle running:

1st priority 20-40 minute tempo runs

2nd priority: intervals

I'd love to do base mileage but my body just doesnt seem to handle 20-30 mpw without some bullcrap happening, so I have to engineer some 15mpw quality method if I ever reboot this [hoping January-ish]

Ernest wrote:

Thread title is "Sub-20 5k or bust".

There's been plenty of solid advice on how to achieve that - and none of it followed.

Plenty of obsessing about shoes and heart rates and pointless workouts - and near-nada goal-specific training.

This thread is troll bait and a circle-jerk of mediocrity.

What a ridiculous post.

Sub-20 is not my only goal, it is sub-20 while keeping sprint speed.

I have followed some advice about long and easy. Most advice received is distance-specific, which is not my goal.

No shoe obsession, just normal attention to not getting fasciitis or sore feet.

No workout is pointless.

All race-pace intervals are goal-specific, as is the total duration of the interval period.

Troll bait, lol. You think I work for LR?

I am going to crush 20 minutes and rub it in your face. In fact, like that other jackoff Kavanaugh, you have just motivated me to go even faster.

I actually LOL'd! I am just gonna throw this out there... how about RUNNING? Like, at least 5k... I know, I know... it's out there... just spit-ballin' here...

Sprintgeezer wrote:

I am going to crush 20 minutes and rub it in your face.

No, no no. Hate is for middle distance. You'll "crush" 20 when 20 is easy, and you train for that not by effort but by running better.

Try running 1000m intervals in something comfortably under 4 minutes. Once you get to 3:20 with around 3 minutes between, you're just about there. But don't overdo any one rep, always target the pace to something that seems sustainable.

I view the 5k as a sort of middle distance—largely aerobic, but not long enough to get bored...plus, you can lay it out at the finish.

Are you planning on doing another 5k time trial? Would be interesting to see if you have progressed from the earlier ones you posted.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

I view the 5k as a sort of middle distance—largely aerobic, but not long enough to get bored...plus, you can lay it out at the finish.

Exactly !

Sub 20 or bust glad you are back on track.

The possible demise of the track 5000m sucks. IMO the distances run should be something like 80m, 300m, 3000 or 5000m, and marathon. These distances work for physiology, and discourage overlap. Someone like Hassan or Dolt being capable of winning 3 different distances is something that doesn’t sit well with me.

The 1500 is a race that is increasingly unappealing to me. Stretch it out to 3000 or 5000m so that some guys have a reasonable shot at separation, and so that the race potentially has more than 2 phases. Elimination-style also works at these distances, especially in the 3000m, IMO.

With how fast the best athletes are, the 3000 and 5000 are arguably mid-d. 13 minutes is short, but long enough to have a more complex race model than just sit-and-kick., at least for some. At that, maybe at the very highest level the middle distance race should be 10k, given how fast they do it.

Once and Future wrote:

Are you planning on doing another 5k time trial? Would be interesting to see if you have progressed from the earlier ones you posted.

Yes, but only when I think I have a good shot at sub-20. If I stay healthy and progress as I have been, I will complete my treadmill stuff in about a month, but I expect I will have difficulty on the treadmill once I hit something like 15 or 10 seconds, so it might take longer.

It would be interesting to have an intermediate TT though, but I just had a month off so I think I would be short-changing myself.

I love this. Just to be healthy enough to be able to so this is great, I know guys my age who have real hereditary heart problems that they have to pay close attention to, but it’s great to just be able to bang out a run like a kid. Who knows how much longer I have left like this. I’m going to enjoy it while I can, every run is awesome!

So, 6 months later not really close and back to square one? Sorry but , I don't think you will break 20.

Of course not... he's no Brett Kavanaugh.

BrettK wrote:

Of course not... he's no Brett Kavanaugh.

....and at least he isn't going to pull a Mike Rossi.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Sprintgeezer wrote:

I am going to crush 20 minutes and rub it in your face.

No, no no. Hate is for middle distance. You'll "crush" 20 when 20 is easy, and you train for that not by effort but by running better.

Try running 1000m intervals in something comfortably under 4 minutes. Once you get to 3:20 with around 3 minutes between, you're just about there. But don't overdo any one rep, always target the pace to something that seems sustainable.

That is way faster (3:20) than you need to run 1000m intervals to break 20:00 mins. Mid-50s I would run 5 or 6 x 1000m with 2:30 recovery, and running 3:30 per rep, I ran 17:32 for 5000m on track.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

IMO the distances run should be something like 80m, 300m, 3000 or 5000m, and marathon.

nope

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Sub-20 is not my only goal, it is sub-20 while keeping sprint speed.

I have followed some advice about long and easy. Most advice received is distance-specific, which is not my goal.

That's an interesting goal, as excellence at sprinting and distance running are at odds with one another. How do you define "keeping sprint speed"? If you can sprint 100 in 11.5 off pure sprint training would sub-20 and 100m in 12.0 mean you have kept sprint speed? Would it not be easier to train for the sub-20 if you eased back on the sprint training a bit? Cut out the weights and number of sprint sessions per week? Substitute a sprint session with a distance session? Perhaps a time trial or hard tempo run of 3000m or 3 x 1200m intervals?