Frank Meza 2:53:10 at LA Marathon (70 years old) unofficial time (just finished)

Thank you for the succinct explanation.

Too bad that Cal. International and/or BroJos won't help investigate.

Hate to see old guys get cheated like this. Who'll be the next Ed Whitlock? If shady stuff like this continues, many running record books integrity will be at stake...

Fair wrote:

Thank you for the succinct explanation.

Too bad that Cal. International and/or BroJos won't help investigate.

Hate to see old guys get cheated like this. Who'll be the next Ed Whitlock? If shady stuff like this continues, many running record books integrity will be at stake...

Gene Dykes is already the next Ed Whitlock.

The rule of thumb for people running marathons in the three hour range is that half marathon pace is about 20 seconds faster per mile than marathon pace. For people on this board who are familiar with what these differing paces feel like, Meza's pacing differential appears incredible.

http://results2.xacte.com/#/e/2231/placings Frank Meza ran this half marathon on Jan 20, 2019. Seems as if it was a tune-up race for the Phoenix-Mesa Sprouts Marathon. It would seem if he was not intentionally running at "marathon pace", he could have threatened Ed Whitlock's single age half-marathon record for 70 years old. (about 4 minutes quicker) He may not have been aware that the half-marathon record was well within his range. (it seems) Do the doubters think he is cheating these half-marathons too? I have run enough half-marathons, too know that runners do sneak in and out of them...BUT I see them. They do not really go unnoticed. To suggest this elderly Doctor is doing all this, if we really think about it, is laughable. Not saying it could not be done, but I have not heard yet, EXACTLY how this is supposed to be being done. Truly this is a gossipy thread, something I did not intend it to be. I started it because I thought it was a shame that such fast times were going unnoticed. How do other older runners NOT notice these kind of times. If I had not started these threads. (including the 2:53:54 thread) They still would way under the radar. How do these Marathons, have someone run these times from a 70 year old, go without any mention?

Looking through the Pasadena HM photos, it again appears that Frank has far fewer photos than most of the runners who finished around him time-wise. In the shots he does appear in, his bib is prominently displayed.

His splits also bounce around (21:00 first 5k, 20:00 second 5k, 21:00 third 5k), but less so than his marathons.

And once again he had a delayed start of 49 seconds. Has it been determined why he does this? Although at this race it appears several runners around him also had big deltas from gun to chip.

If all of these things happened in one race, that race can be considered a fluke. When they happen over and over to the same runner, you start to question things.

I think Meza has changed or refined his tactics over the past year or so. His splits from recent races look very plausible (except for the fact that he's running them at 70 years old). He doesn't have any more missed timing mats, and the changes in pace are not nearly as wild.

However, it is too late. The earlier results clearly point to cheating (or, to give him the benefit of the doubt, they at least demand an explanation). And if he was cheating before, he wouldn't have suddenly decided that, funnily enough, I think I can actually do this legitimately! He has just gotten better at cheating, is my guess.

What is his modus operandi? I don't know. It's worth keeping in mind that it hasn't necessarily been the same the whole time. I'm guessing it involves an accomplice runner who takes his bib for portions of the race while Meza finds other means of transport to take him to a rendezvous point. The accomplice keeps the bib concealed from the view of cameras, but still triggers the timing mats.

Obviously, he's a halfway decent runner for his age - maybe even pretty good. 3:30 marathon ability, or something like that, would be pretty danged great for age 70, but it wouldn't get him a world's best. But he's enough of a runner that you can't just eyeball him and say "no way in hell" (like w/Rosie Ruiz).

That’s right. Once a cheater always a cheater. I wonder if he is really a doctor. I wonder if he is really 70. I don’t believe anything once I know they cheated or lied before.

Yep! I said all that in a post above, one that I wrote and sent to LetsRun four years ago. I repeat also, that the guy carrying his bib deserves some credit for being an excellent runner!

I don’t believe he’s achieved these results legitmately. It’s possible for someone that age to run that fast but there are too many red flags here.

The most damning evidence to me is the video footage from LA 2018, where he pulls off a sweatshirt and adjusts his belted race bib at the top of the finishing straight, despite appearing in race photos on the course in only a singlet. There’s a link on p3 of this thread.

But if he did cheat, how?!?!

Like Kip Litton, no one knows how.

I would love to see Dr Meza run a sub 19 in a single flat course 5k. Just one.

Florida Fan1 wrote:

I would love to see Dr Meza run a sub 19 in a single flat course 5k. Just one.

+1

wejo is a 28-low guy wrote:

The rule of thumb for people running marathons in the three hour range is that half marathon pace is about 20 seconds faster per mile than marathon pace. For people on this board who are familiar with what these differing paces feel like, Meza's pacing differential appears incredible.

Extrapolating.

The rule of thumb for people running marathons in the TWO hour range is that half marathon pace is about 14 seconds faster per mile than marathon pace.

Since the 1/2 WR is 58:18 than means any marathon time faster than 2:02:42 is suspect.

X-trapolate wrote:

Since the 1/2 WR is 58:18 than means any marathon time faster than 2:02:42 is suspect.

Yeah but, that's only because Kipchoge hasn't attacked the half world record.

X-trapolate wrote:

wejo is a 28-low guy wrote:

The rule of thumb for people running marathons in the three hour range is that half marathon pace is about 20 seconds faster per mile than marathon pace. For people on this board who are familiar with what these differing paces feel like, Meza's pacing differential appears incredible.

Extrapolating.

The rule of thumb for people running marathons in the TWO hour range is that half marathon pace is about 14 seconds faster per mile than marathon pace.

Since the 1/2 WR is 58:18 than means any marathon time faster than 2:02:42 is suspect.

Nice deflection.

I was going to write more, but +1 will do. wrote:

Florida Fan1 wrote:

I would love to see Dr Meza run a sub 19 in a single flat course 5k. Just one.

+1

On a track, where he can be observed the whole way at an accurate distance.

Where is that Marathon Investigation guy? Here in Florida, some guy was just outed for running a 1:41 half marathon in the 55-59 age group at the Safety Harbor Best Damn Race. Hahahahaha! He claimed his medal.

...I live in NJ. I'm fairly certain I could set up a 5k on the track and get some 50-60's to pace. Maybe even get Gene up from Philly area to race. I'll pay for Dr. Meza's airfare and 2 nights lodging (he can pay for extra nights if he is worried about the time zone difference). In return, he has to run sub 19.

YMMV wrote:

I was going to write more, but +1 will do. wrote:

+1

On a track, where he can be observed the whole way at an accurate distance.

Late to this discussion, but +2.

If it seems too good to be true...

Also, just so posters here know, it's laughable for some posters to use the fact that he was a licensed physician as evidence of good moral character.

This is great stuff. I have known some masters athletes who were real headcases--guys who would get over-zealous, to settle "unfinished business" they had left over FROM HIGH SCHOOL. And these people are 70+.

Masters track makes me shudder. I only ran open races, and haven't ran any since the year in which I no longer had a semi-legitimate shot at actually medaling in local races. This year will be my first year running in a slower division, should I choose to run. I would be proud to run against maybe 13-14-year-old's, but not exclusively against a bunch of masters. In my experience, masters track athletes tend to have..."issues".

The guy could easily get on the track and provide verification, if he's for real. Easily, given those mid-marathon 5k splits. Everybody knows who he is. It doesn't even need to be an official race, just have credible observers. I'm sure some of the LR community would volunteer.

When an athlete bucks the trend that is everybody else, when they reverse their own course, when they PR when they shouldn't, and when that PR is a WR, it is a screaming red flag, like Demerritt's 2012 110mH season and 12.80 WR. I don't know enough about this guy to say whether he presents the same situation, but it sure sounds like he might.