Thanks, Coach. Great video. There will never be another Bill Rodgers. What a beast.
Thanks, Coach. Great video. There will never be another Bill Rodgers. What a beast.
Sounds like a little Smokey and the bandit action.
outsiderunner training!
OR -- I was filing photos today and was reminded of a discussion you started some time back about how non-runners are clueless about our sport. Someone chimed in that the same can be said concerning any hobby, citing woodworking as an example.
I had a few months of non-running at the end of last year, and used the "extra" time to finally tackle a project I had planned for nearly 20 years -- ever since seeing an 1844 portrait of a girl at a piano. I collect 1820s-40s period furniture, and reproducing the piano or harmonium case looked like a perfect project.
To the non-woodworker, it's a simple wooden box. In reality, there are more than 80 individual pieces of veneer, carefully-executed hidden joinery, etc.
Anyway, I thought I would share. The case houses my Casio keyboard and a small amplifier. Solid mahogany, mahogany and book-matched crotch mahogany veneers, curly maple and birds-eye maple veneers. The 1844 watercolor portrait is a scene in Cortland, N.Y. -- where Jack Daniels had some success as a Division III coach!
1844 watercolor portrait on the left, my reproduction case on the right and below:
I know this has been beaten to death over the years.
But. You can always show outliers to endorse a training strategery. Be it your example or Ryun w the insane intervals.
The point is the vast majority improve the most with a tradition training approach.. which is an approach you use Allen from looking at your training.
OR is very fast with his approach. Would he be faster with a traditional approach? We shall never know.
runrincerepeat wrote:
Would he be faster with a traditional approach? We shall never know.
Indeed. I was just struck by the similarities -- 10-12 mile daily progression runs finishing at threshold pace. Well, that's what was mentioned in the quoted text -- I haven't read the entire article yet.
For sure, I train based on Daniels concepts. And rest days. Easy days. Recovery days. There have been periods where I have mostly done progression runs and few workouts, but always plenty of rest days.
I don't advocate his approach, but he has had great success. And, really, it's OR's ability to run quality six or seven days a week that I find particularly unique. Amazing, especially at near 50.
I am beat today after slogging through my first double-digit mileage run in quite a while. A whole lot slower than he hammers day after day ...
At the non-elite level most of us are at, I think a variety of approaches work to varying degrees. I’ve always thought that OR’s approach might not be optimal in some ways, but it might be the best that he’s going to do and enjoy, which is important.
SI - Good luck at Leesburg tomorrow. I’m sitting it out as the PTT is still touch and go.
ORs approach is optimal for feeling good and running well. It’s not optimal for running the fastest PRs possible.
Which is fine? I would probably run a lot faster if I drank less natural light. But is 20sec in a 5k worth having fun? That’s the balance.
Now I will go dry for weeks to beat AJs combover bald a$$ in a HM. Esp when it involves that dipping Alabama redneck going vegan for a month
RRR is gettin lean and mean and angry AJ. You better have some Nike 8%s in January.
Allen1959 wrote:
OR -- I was filing photos today and was reminded of a discussion you started some time back about how non-runners are clueless about our sport. Someone chimed in that the same can be said concerning any hobby, citing woodworking as an example.
I had a few months of non-running at the end of last year, and used the "extra" time to finally tackle a project I had planned for nearly 20 years -- ever since seeing an 1844 portrait of a girl at a piano. I collect 1820s-40s period furniture, and reproducing the piano or harmonium case looked like a perfect project.
To the non-woodworker, it's a simple wooden box. In reality, there are more than 80 individual pieces of veneer, carefully-executed hidden joinery, etc.
Anyway, I thought I would share. The case houses my Casio keyboard and a small amplifier. Solid mahogany, mahogany and book-matched crotch mahogany veneers, curly maple and birds-eye maple veneers. The 1844 watercolor portrait is a scene in Cortland, N.Y. -- where Jack Daniels had some success as a Division III coach!
Allen! Well done!
What you did is something I try to point out to my now high-school-age daughter. You had an idea you thought would be "cool" to do, as many people do; the difference is that you made it happen. You invested time and effort on something that was not guaranteed to turn out right. The reason that cool thing exists is because you had the "courage" to risk the time/energy/ego. Most people don't take that first step.
My daughter is an artist and would like to make her living in that world. I've tried to raise her to be appreciative of "virtuosity" wherever she sees it, from architecture to zoo-cage-sweeping. I think that idea has taken root. The courage to move from concept to concrete is also there, but latent and maybe in sandy soil. We shall see...
runrincerepeat wrote:
Now I will go dry for weeks to beat AJs combover bald a$$ in a HM.
Make sure you compensate for those calories with an extra 10 pieces of fruit.
I'm going dry till my next sub-20 5k.
That will be on Thursday, I hope.
If not, dry till a month from Thursday when I'll get another 5k time-trial chance.
If not then, until my sub-40 10k in two months.
If not even then, the problem is obviously the lack of beer. Q.E.D.
I can see a lot has been going on while I was at work today. Had to run in the evening today (after work) and so I finished my run a short while ago.
Allen - I must say that you are quite a woodworker. Very nice work there, my friend, I, too, love old things—old houses, old cars, old furniture, old books, you name it—I have an appreciation for quality, craftsmanship, and historical preservation. Thank you very much for sharing. Art is uplifting in a great number of ways. Without beauty, life would be rather ugly.
Regarding Mr. Ron Clarke (one of my favorites)...I have not looked over the article you have cited yet, but have read a fair amount about Clarke’s training. Yes, I train in a very similar manner. I find it interesting that the turning point for Clarke—“Clarke 2.0”—is what led him to becoming a truly great runner, when he ditched the anaerobic training (that he did in the 1950s) for his aerobic-centered approach of the 1960s. Too hot has mentioned my similarity to Clarke. Also, Jack Foster trained in a similar manner. Lots of long, hilly, aerobic runs. What a beast of an old man runner he was. I love that guy.
In any case, I have pondered my training over and over, and I think it is hard to say what would happen if I used a more polarized or modern/conventional approach. I am not sure if would like training in that manner, and that is the main thing that gives me pause. Also, things have been going well for me, and so I am hesitant to make significant changes to my approach.
In doing what I do day-in and day-out I get the sense that I am thriving. I feel uplifted by my flyers (had another one tonight), and am thrilled by being able to control a run and a pace, to say to my body “Do this” and see it do it, or do more.
Not much sleep last night (my little girl was spooked by the storms), a busy day at work, and to come home and do 6:57, 6:43, 6:37, 6:53, 6:45, 6:28, 6:26, 6:23, 6:26, 6:31, 6:09, 4:39 in full control, some of which in a pouring rain, gave me nothing but joy...11.75 at 6:32.8 overall.
66 miles in six days (six runs)...gonna call it a week and rest my achilles tomorrow.
Many blessings to you, my friend.
Coach Jeff -- I suspect your daughter will enjoy great success. The apple does not fall far from the tree. I sometimes feel I was not encouraging enough with my sons -- kinda just let them find their own way. Justin was very motivated to follow his passion for filmmaking, was self-taught and did a lot of freelance work, including a successful on-line series that attracted some well-known actors. His day gig was reviewing camera and video equipment and writing web content for a major NYC photo retailer. But his post-graduate degree was information science, and now he's a university librarian. I dunno. He seems happy. Enough.
runrincerepeat wrote:
The point is the vast majority improve the most with a tradition training approach.
How can you say this with a straight face? I appreciate the lightheartedness that you bring to this thread but this stuff?
Forget what any of us knows about training theory, pure logic will tell you that the vast majority aren’t exposed to a wide enough sample of training programs to conclude that the traditional approach is optimal.
too hot wrote:
runrincerepeat wrote:
The point is the vast majority improve the most with a tradition training approach.
How can you say this with a straight face? I appreciate the lightheartedness that you bring to this thread but this stuff?
Forget what any of us knows about training theory, pure logic will tell you that the vast majority aren’t exposed to a wide enough sample of training programs to conclude that the traditional approach is optimal.
Lighthearted as you think i am uninformed? Or a habitual drunk? You have always had a problem with me and i dont know why...
The next race no matter good or bad I will count on you to find fault...
outsiderunner wrote:
... 66 miles in six days (six runs)...gonna call it a week and rest my achilles tomorrow.
That is an impressive run, especially after working all day! I am gonna take tomorrow off, also, to rest my achilles ... 50 miles in six days ...
Fifty miles in six days—nice work, Allen. Enjoy your rest day.
The Stone Cutter - Always fun to have a group doing a workout (I assume on a track) together, even if its different workouts
Tall dark roast - good luck getting back into the swing of things with work. I would struggle with 33s 200s as well in trainers
runrincerepeat - nice week of mileage + cross training
angryjohnny - solid workouts in that week, im looking forward to some higher volume repeats. 8 weeks to go and your looking good
Coach Jeff ROC - nice job on that 22k, and funny comment & sorry about work
Sub 6:00 - sorry about the injury, goodluck getting out of it. I never understood the locking public HS tracks
Late on comments but got them in, just started my vacation week so will be more on-top of it next week (8/20-8/26)
FitzyXC - hope the track work left you wanted more, itll be useful for the fitness gains
Smoove - These weeks happen,
statfanatic - hopefully you get a nice bonus for that month of work, you managed pretty well with mileage/workouts
outsiderunner - quick stuff as normal (and cool weather comparison story, makes me feel better, will have to let the gf know as well)
Allen1959 - you might want to give yourself some more shortterm goals to keep you going!
Bird502 - some long singles in there, 90 in 6 days/7 runs is pretty crazy, I would say that your intensity was appropriate, tough LR + 8mi tempo.. (nice stuff on your 3k race)
Bonham - the wanting to stop halfway through the tempo describes most of my tempo runs, glad you stuck with it. solid workout on saturday, should give you some confidence on your goal time
krishna - hopefully you learn to like the hills, they will do good for you, nice 20k miles mark.. im way behind you (with a later start day (~2yr))
HHH Runner - Add some 3k-5k quarters after those races, interesting week overall. goodluck in the races
Gordon Tremeshko - volume probably more important 9 weeks out than the rest, I've never had a problem sleeping imediately after excersise.
Andy Dufrense - That's quite a week, will be interested in what types of workouts you get in over the next few weeks
th4bt - if you can get some higher volume and stay injury free I would say that 2:37:17 goal is doable
Holy crap Allen. That's pretty incredible. You're a true Renaissance man.
Ha ha. The best part is my wife lets me keep my keyboard in the parlor now. Instead of under the bed collecting dust.
RunnerSam wrote:
Allen1959 - you might want to give yourself some more shortterm goals to keep you going!
RunnerSam -- That is selfless dedication on a Saturday night to offer your comprehensive feedback to all the posters. Thank you! Regarding goals, at my age, time flies so quickly, 13 months feels pretty darn short-term. But seriously, I have a 5K in less than two weeks, then will be looking at a couple autumn races if my injuries stay manageable. Then a 5K in January and a 10-mile race in February .... That's a big "IF" in there, though ...