Jim Walmsey is better than you and so is ultra running

Michael Aish ran in the 2004 Olympic 5000. Was second at Leadville 100, won the Leadville 50.

Er, you mean he bounced out of the heats while representing the uber competitive 2004 Kiwi team. It's not like he made the final.

comedyrelief wrote:

My point is that the talent pool that competes in ultras is extremely shallow. There is no way you can put a Jornet or a Walmsley on the level of a Kipchoge, a Rupp, a Farah, etc. It is not even close in terms of quality or quantity of competitors. The best Walmsley ever did as a collegian was 38th fastest steeple chase runner in the US in 2012. To claim he is better than the 37 other steeplers who ran faster than him that year, let alone all of the 1500 runners, 5000 runners, 10000 runners, etc. is foolish. I will amend my earlier statement of 50 and revise to hundreds of collegians that graduate from the NCAA each year are capable of doing what he is doing at ultras, they just choose to do something more productive with their time / life.

As a spectator of a sport, the only people you can watch are the people who choose to participate in that sport. The fact that there may be other people who have chosen a different sport who would be better is irrelevant. Are you a fan of watching American sprinters? When you do, does it bother you that the vast majority of kids with the kind of explosive speed it takes to sprint at that level are swiped up by the football coaches? Almost all of that genetic talent is swallowed up by all the money offered by the NFL. Anyone still left sprinting as his primary sport in college, is someone who just lacked the additional skills necessary to be successful at football. Of course that doesn't bother you. Or at least it shouldn't. You can just enjoy watching the best sprinters sprint, the best marathoners run marathons, and the best ultra runners run ultras. One of those sports doesn't interest you? Then don't watch it.

comedyrelief wrote:

When you look at the marathon, where the top Kenyans are running 4:40 mile pace / 14:40 5k pace, that is impressive, as most grown men can't run those times.

I drove my car 26 miles in 26 minutes, and I wasn't even trying.

comedyrelief wrote:

My point is that the talent pool that competes in ultras is extremely shallow. There is no way you can put a Jornet or a Walmsley on the level of a Kipchoge, a Rupp, a Farah, etc. It is not even close in terms of quality or quantity of competitors. The best Walmsley ever did as a collegian was 38th fastest steeple chase runner in the US in 2012. To claim he is better than the 37 other steeplers who ran faster than him that year, let alone all of the 1500 runners, 5000 runners, 10000 runners, etc. is foolish. I will amend my earlier statement of 50 and revise to hundreds of collegians that graduate from the NCAA each year are capable of doing what he is doing at ultras, they just choose to do something more productive with their time / life.

Let's think about this, in an honest, logical sense for just a moment..I know I am asking a lot here but bare with me..why in god's name are you so caught up on this? ? As a fan of athletics, I genuinely can't understand this mindset. We're not talking about a 26.2 mile race to where maybe a couple hundred ft of elevation gain at best is being run on. Western and other ultra races present challenges that no road race will, that doesn't mean a road race isn't challenging, but it's all together different. There are some road ultras, even one in the Virgin Islands, something like a 55k with 11,000 ft of climb, now that's insane, but that still isn't even in the same ball park as Western States. If LRC gurus are so obsessed with flat out speed and maxed out cadence, it ends with the 100 m. No other human on planet earth can match that level of explosiveness and strength. Speed endurance, past the 800m, your 5k time means nothing in terms of speed then when talking about elite sprinters. So why does this argument come up so much with comparing apples to basketballs with the London Marathon vs Western States? No disrespect, but there's more elevation climb going up a flight of stairs than what that course and other popular marathons present. I run road races, and I love the trails, I am in fact training for a September road marathon, so I respect the hell out of both. Are we forgetting the carnage that Boston Marathon created for so many runners? Variables out of their control that broke them in less than 2 hours, not 20 hours, not 12, not 6 hours, less than 2 hours. This is an idiotic argument, and I love that Walmsley has the whole running community shook by what just happened. He's shook up the veteran ultra guys that said he was a kamikaze, and now has the road guys shaking their heads trying ever possible angle to say what he did can easily be done again. You keep citing what he did in 2011, 2012? How many elite college guys never make it to the next level and fizzle out? If he's ballsy and wild enough to go for broke at Western, you really don't think he'll redline for 13.1 on a flat road course? Come on now..

[quote]fatbody wrote:

As a case in point, I brought up the Olympic Marathon, which is arguably the most competitive distance running event in the world.

The Olympic marathon is not the most competitive race in the world because they only allow 3 Kenyans and 3 Ethiopians. The most competitive marathon in the world is likely Dubai, Berlin or London. Ultras are not competitive because there are pretty much no Africans from the Rift Valley. Take a look at the IAAF marathon lists, they are 80% Kenyans and Ethiopians, with a sprinkling of Japanese and Moraccans. There is only 1 US athlete in the top 100. Ultras are probably one of the least competitive professional sports in existence.

llort_vbo wrote:

Michael Aish ran in the 2004 Olympic 5000. Was second at Leadville 100, won the Leadville 50.

Er, you mean he bounced out of the heats while representing the uber competitive 2004 Kiwi team. It's not like he made the final.

The bar was make an Olympic team. Now it is make the finals. Next it will be win a medal. Whatever.

Magdalena is a wonderful person with a tremendous list of accomplishments, but she was clearly past her prime at WS100 and still won handily.

Not Sasquatch wrote:

Magda Boulet

Not Sasquatch wrote:

Magda Boulet

Thanks for burning that idiot.

chub rub wrote:

Michael Aish ran in the 2004 Olympic 5000. Was second at Leadville 100, won the Leadville 50.

Here is an excellent example of how uncompetitive the ultra scene is. If you take Michael Aish's PRs and put them on the IAAF lists for 2004, here is where he would rank: 5000 meters - 13:22 - rank #177, 10000 meters - 27:46 - Rank #48, marathon - 2:13:21 - Rank #241.

Some of you have expressed how Walmsley could run a 2:11 marathon. That is fine and dandy, but that would only rank #274 on the world list this year (and the year is only about half over). They might be the best ultra runners in the US, but don't put them out there as better than everyone just because they compete at a sport that most of humanity doesn't care about.

comedyrelief wrote:

chub rub wrote:

Michael Aish ran in the 2004 Olympic 5000. Was second at Leadville 100, won the Leadville 50.

Here is an excellent example of how uncompetitive the ultra scene is. If you take Michael Aish's PRs and put them on the IAAF lists for 2004, here is where he would rank: 5000 meters - 13:22 - rank #177, 10000 meters - 27:46 - Rank #48, marathon - 2:13:21 - Rank #241.

Some of you have expressed how Walmsley could run a 2:11 marathon. That is fine and dandy, but that would only rank #274 on the world list this year

Where would that 2:11 (flat or hell even 2:11:59) Walmsley might run get him on the US list in the same time frame for runners not named Rupp?

comedyrelief wrote:

[quote]fatbody wrote:

As a case in point, I brought up the Olympic Marathon, which is arguably the most competitive distance running event in the world.

The Olympic marathon is not the most competitive race in the world because they only allow 3 Kenyans and 3 Ethiopians. The most competitive marathon in the world is likely Dubai, Berlin or London. Ultras are not competitive because there are pretty much no Africans from the Rift Valley. Take a look at the IAAF marathon lists, they are 80% Kenyans and Ethiopians, with a sprinkling of Japanese and Moraccans. There is only 1 US athlete in the top 100. Ultras are probably one of the least competitive professional sports in existence.

There needs to be a manager in Kenya who is geared to recruiting and promoting runners specifically for ultras - securing sponsorships and paying for athletes to come to races. The only money would have to be from sponsorship, as the prize money is just too low, and I think that's the problem as unfortunately ultras are an affluent white sport with small numbers allowed to compete in any given race (due to permits etc.). How much money is there to be made off promoting ultras and will the companies that profit off promoting ultras (shoes etc.), be interested in spending their money to introduce Kenyan athletes into dominating the sport. What does it gain them to do that? A Kenyan would need to be bankroll themselves first and then show up and start winning events before they would attract sponsorship. Who's going to do that?

But all of it doesn't matter. Do top Kenyan runners from the rift valley have the potential to win ultras if they trained and raced them? Yup. But they aren't doing that so what is the point of speculating about it?

Forget ultra, backward running is the new in. If you can run a fast backward marathon then you are a real champ. Forward running is for losers.

https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a19692331/running-boston-marathon-backward/

Nearly every child attempts to run a 100m and a mile at some point growing up. Even watching a kid play soccer/basketball/football, you can tell if they’re fast. In PE class, most students are required to run a mile. You can tell if they have aerobic ability.

These track events are tried by millions of new runners every year.

How many people try ultramarathoning ever? .0000000001%?

The talent pool isn’t even close. That’s the difference.

Now I have to say these two comments are really funny.

That's the reason why I love Letrun.com so much.

comedyrelief wrote:

chub rub wrote:

Michael Aish ran in the 2004 Olympic 5000. Was second at Leadville 100, won the Leadville 50.

Here is an excellent example of how uncompetitive the ultra scene is. If you take Michael Aish's PRs and put them on the IAAF lists for 2004, here is where he would rank: 5000 meters - 13:22 - rank #177, 10000 meters - 27:46 - Rank #48, marathon - 2:13:21 - Rank #241.

Some of you have expressed how Walmsley could run a 2:11 marathon. That is fine and dandy, but that would only rank #274 on the world list this year (and the year is only about half over). They might be the best ultra runners in the US, but don't put them out there as better than everyone just because they compete at a sport that most of humanity doesn't care about.

Actually it doesn't say much about anything except ultra running is hard. Aish finished Leadville a half hour behind Krar and almost an hour behind Carpenters record.

Your argument is like saying Rudisha would be the best 5000 runner is he wanted to race that distance.

U.S.D.A.1 wrote:

Something drastically changed 2-3 years ago after his DUI and cheating scandal discharged him from the AirForce.

Cheating scandal? I like to hear more about that.

The cheating scandal wasn't with a woman. It was a test that he was dishonest on and got caught. Even his DUI story has a lot of holes in it.

Dennis Kimetto wrote:

U.S.D.A.1 wrote:

Something drastically changed 2-3 years ago after his DUI and cheating scandal discharged him from the AirForce.

Cheating scandal? I like to hear more about that.

Iffy wrote:

The cheating scandal wasn't with a woman. It was a test that he was dishonest on and got caught. Even his DUI story has a lot of holes in it.

Ohh nothing juicy?

chub run wrote:

Your argument is like saying Rudisha would be the best 5000 runner is he wanted to race that distance.

No it's not. It is like saying Rudisha would be the best 5000 runner against a bunch of D3 athletes.