Why is Sebastian Coe's technique considered the best?

Steve Davis wrote:

Kalla wrote:

Is this not perfection? So smooth!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vb_m5THiPQ

Coe's running action is overrated. He strains immensely down the final straight.

El Guerrouj and Morceli were so much smoother and faster.

And what 'strain' do you see here? The strain of running a 12.1 final 100m in an Olympic 1500 final without EPO, HGH, steroids etc etc.?

Coevett wrote:

Steve Davis wrote:

Coe's running action is overrated. He strains immensely down the final straight.

El Guerrouj and Morceli were so much smoother and faster.

And what 'strain' do you see here? The strain of running a 12.1 final 100m in an Olympic 1500 final without EPO, HGH, steroids etc etc.?

https://youtu.be/nKvbzPgYwbk?t=3m

Do you see any strain here?

Form not as important as leg speed.

That is --- what can a runner do over 200 meters.

That basic speed plus a desire to run aerobic miles

and to race well over several distances is the foundation

for gold. Dave Wottle, his form ok, his basic speed good, his

ability to run well over the mile and 800, his knowing the proper

pace without going too fast....added up to gold.

Coe's basic speed, stamina and epo made him great.

Steve Davis wrote:

Coe's running action is overrated. He strains immensely down the final straight.

El Guerrouj and Morceli were so much smoother and faster.

Do you see any strain here?

https://youtu.be/MOVrht9WIvE

Lets Run idiot of the day goes to the guy who should stick to snooker.

Yeah, I see strain on his face, the strain of destroying a world class field with another scorching last 100m that no other middle-distance runner in the world could live with. Coe is famous for his unreal kick over the home straight, and yet you're criticizing him for poor running form? Imagine what he'd have been able to do if he'd ironed out that 'strain' that cost him precious tenths of a second in the final 100ms of races. Perhaps he would have ran sub 11 second in Moscow, or broke the world record here. Still, as it is, nobody in the history of the 1500m has been quicker than him over the last 100m, including the EPO North Africans, so his form couldn't have been that bad.

The only thing that seemed to be a bad habit with Coe was he'd look round more than necessary in the home straight, usually just to confirm that the rest were 50 meters behind him and receeding further into the distance. But it's a testament to his balance and form that it never seemed to effect him, except perhaps in the 84 trials when he seemed to be accelerating away from Elliot but looked back and it seemed to knock him off his stride a fraction and Elliot overtook him at the line.

BTW, this is real unsightly strain in the last 100m from an athlete who ducked Coe that night (as in LA) and who needed every PED under the sun to hold off a 40 year old John Walker

Coevett wrote:

And what 'strain' do you see here? The strain of running a 12.1 final 100m in an Olympic 1500 final without EPO, HGH, steroids etc etc.?

is this a joke?

no steroids in the 80s wrote:

Coevett wrote:

And what 'strain' do you see here? The strain of running a 12.1 final 100m in an Olympic 1500 final without EPO, HGH, steroids etc etc.?

is this a joke?

No. Are you Calculo?

EPO hadn’t been invented in 1980, and pretty certain HGH hadn’t yet been used as a PED.

Coe would have been tested for steroids every time he won a medal, every time he broke a world record, and regularly out of competition and out of season from the early 80’s.

Steve Davis wrote:

Kalla wrote:

Is this not perfection? So smooth!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vb_m5THiPQ

Coe's running action is overrated. He strains immensely down the final straight.

El Guerrouj and Morceli were so much smoother and faster.

Coe sometimes showed strain in his face at the end of races, but never in his legs or body when at best. EL G also showed strain on ocassion in his face; e.g Athens Olympic final.

Neither EL G nor Morceli had 46 flat and 1:41 speed. N get produced anything close. Therefore they never ran at speeds as fast as Coe produced.

Then why did Coe end up being slower than Cram?

kjwhj``` wrote:

Then why did Coe end up being slower than Cram?

He wasn’t!

Faster over 400, 800, 1000m.

Cram’s 1500pb was 0.1 faster than Coe’s, which is about 80cm.

Cram’s was Run in his best year ever at top of his powers. Coe’s was run off awful pacing, 54.0 followed by 58.0, when well past his best in 86. He had some dreadful pacing over 1500 in his best years and few record attempts. Capable of much faster than 3:29. As it was, had Chesire not run and cut in infront of Coe at the bell, forcing Coe to slow down and then run wide on curve to pass him, then he would certainly have run faster than Cram, and probably have broken the then WR of Aouita’s as well.

Welsh Wizard wrote:

kjwhj``` wrote:

Then why did Coe end up being slower than Cram?

He wasn’t!

Faster over 400, 800, 1000m.

Cram’s 1500pb was 0.1 faster than Coe’s, which is about 80cm.

Cram’s was Run in his best year ever at top of his powers. Coe’s was run off awful pacing, 54.0 followed by 58.0, when well past his best in 86. He had some dreadful pacing over 1500 in his best years and few record attempts. Capable of much faster than 3:29. As it was, had Chesire not run and cut in infront of Coe at the bell, forcing Coe to slow down and then run wide on curve to pass him, then he would certainly have run faster than Cram, and probably have broken the then WR of Aouita’s as well.

This point is not emphasised enough. At the time, I always felt Coe too rarely had a 'perfect day'. Injury was the main issue, so he lost chunks of 82-85, but I also think that, when he was fit, he did not race enough. IMO he could been much faster - including sub 1310 5k.

Welsh Wizard wrote:

no steroids in the 80s wrote:

is this a joke?

No. Are you Calculo?

EPO hadn’t been invented in 1980, and pretty certain HGH hadn’t yet been used as a PED.

Coe would have been tested for steroids every time he won a medal, every time he broke a world record, and regularly out of competition and out of season from the early 80’s.

Dude... did you seriously just use the lame "he never had a positive test" joke as an argument? About someone competing in the drugged up 80s?

never tested positive wrote:

Welsh Wizard wrote:

No. Are you Calculo?

EPO hadn’t been invented in 1980, and pretty certain HGH hadn’t yet been used as a PED.

Coe would have been tested for steroids every time he won a medal, every time he broke a world record, and regularly out of competition and out of season from the early 80’s.

Dude... did you seriously just use the lame "he never had a positive test" joke as an argument? About someone competing in the drugged up 80s?

And what is your argument mate? That he was white and fast so he must have used drugs?

Pretty sure the only PEDs Coe would have available would be basic steroids and blood doping. As far as steroids is concerned, he was one of lightest 800m runners ever, despite pioneering the use of weight training and not running the mileage that a lot of his rivals were. Compare with the muscle definition of some of the East Germans of the early 80's like Olaf Beyer who were on steroids :

As far as blood doping is concerned, his career doesn't seem to match athletes who we know blood doped (in the pre EPO way) in that era, such as Lasse Viren. Coe would break indoor world records in the winter, run 1:44.00 in early season, and rewrite outdoor world records in August. Compare with Viren who was an also ran every season until the few weeks before an Olympic Games. Blood doping back then was extremely dangerous and a difficult thing to do. He also campaigned to have it banned and set fast times AFTER it was banned when he was past his prime. Also, I doubt if any runner in history will have been checked out by secret services and journalists hoping to make their names as much as Coe. Pretty sure Russia would have been able to obtain proof that he was blood doping back in the 80s by now and would have used it against him.

HGH only became available to athletes in the mid 80s (Said Aouita, cough cough).

My best guess is that HGH would have at the 1988 Olympics. Here's an interesting article,

"Conte said he believes a coverup “all the way to the top” involved track and Olympic officials at the 1988 Seoul Games. He said sprinter Florence Griffith Joyner, heptathlete/long jumper Jackie Joyner-Kersee and 400-meter hurdler Andre Phillips — three marquee gold medalists — all tested positive for PEDs in the South Korean capital, and “they were all covered up.”

“And if you noticed what happened thereafter was that here at (28) years old Flo-Jo was at the height of her economic earning potential and all of a sudden she retires,”...... (Flo-Jo died in her sleep in September 1998 of suffocation from an epileptic seizure. She was 38. Since her death, several prominent track insiders have insisted that Joyner used massive amounts of human growth hormone and steroids)."

I wonder if they would have covered up for a non-American North African superstar? I've always wondered if Aouita pulling out of the 1500m was because of a genuine injury (didn't seem too affected in the 800 final - just got beat by faster men (and knocked by Elliott,hehe)) or was it because he lost control of his bowels after Johnson was busted (and maybe was aware of the coverups for the Americans)?

Anyway, I may be wrong but after what Aouita advised his Australian runners to take, and given his switch to training in the USA, I can't believe that he wasn't pumping himself full of HGH in preparation for the 800m.

Coevett wrote:

I wonder if they would have covered up for a non-American North African superstar?

Ever heard of Hicham El Guerrouj? The "sham" part of his name gives it all away.

Coevett wrote:

I've always wondered if Aouita pulling out of the 1500m was because of a genuine injury (didn't seem too affected in the 800 final - just got beat by faster men (and knocked by Elliott,hehe)) or was it because he lost control of his bowels after Johnson was busted (and maybe was aware of the coverups for the Americans)?

If that was the case, it would indicate that was on the plain old roids not HGH. Sounds like Makhloufi in reverse (2012).

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

My best guess is that HGH would have at the 1988 Olympics.

But they didn't have GHRP-2...the Speeeeeeeeed Peptide back then. ?

Welsh Wizard wrote:

Steve Davis wrote:

Coe's running action is overrated. He strains immensely down the final straight.

El Guerrouj and Morceli were so much smoother and faster.

Coe sometimes showed strain in his face at the end of races, but never in his legs or body when at best. EL G also showed strain on ocassion in his face; e.g Athens Olympic final.

Neither EL G nor Morceli had 46 flat and 1:41 speed. N get produced anything close. Therefore they never ran at speeds as fast as Coe produced.

Wilson Kipketer is definitely smoother than Coe.

Kipketer floats during his WR runs.

Sarah Ulmer wrote:

Wilson Kipketer is definitely smoother than Coe.

Kipketer floats during his WR runs.

Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the smoothest of them all?

David Rudisha!

Steve Davis wrote:

Kalla wrote:

Is this not perfection? So smooth!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vb_m5THiPQ

Coe's running action is overrated. He strains immensely down the final straight.

El Guerrouj and Morceli were so much smoother and faster.

Morceli was not smooth. Even in his WR run he looked like a club runner speeded up (and we know how).

I've read knowledgeable guys like Deano claim here that EPO might have been worth 4 or 5 seconds at 1500m. When you look at the likes of Cacho, Morceli, El G, you have to wonder if maybe at least 8 seconds might be more realistic. Natural 3:35 runners would put them in the category of every North African that we know for sure who didn't have access to EPO (for example, Morceli's own brother).