Ayana 10,000 Meter WR!!! 29:17:46

Renato Canova wrote:

The WR of Wang Junxia was not an unbeatable WR. The analysis of the splits she used (15'05" + 14'26") clearly shows she had the possibility to run under 29'15" with a better pace, probably near 29' without all the competitions she ran in few days.

That was the first race/event she ran during those meetings in Beijing.

She was also 2nd at the 5k mark of that 10k. So she did have a pacer.

Renato Canova wrote:

Fred, the best way for liying is to say only one piece of truth. This is exactly what you say, when don't explain my real thought, so I better explain :

"I don't think EPO can give advantages to athletes living and training ALWAYS in altitude, and in any case no more than 20" also for athletes training at sea level. So, maxiomum 20" for athletes training at sea level, and less than 20" fo somebody training in altitude cominbg from sea level (such as Chinese in 1993), BUT NO ADVANTAGE FOR ATHLETES LIKE AYANA, BORN, LIVING AND TRAINING ALWAYS IN ALTITUDE".

Now is my though more clear ?

Thank you Fred.

Renato Canova; coach of CHEATS.

If EPO didn't give these people an advantage, they wouldn't be caught using it. Even though they are basically allowed to cheat (and Renato knows this) there have been foul-ups where sometimes the positive test results become public. Face it rat-boy, the Africans do cheat and you cheat and you know it. Be gone you lying filthy cheat.

Ben L Wrong wrote:

Doctor Doper wrote:

[quote]xcskier66 wrote:

when your child comes home with 100% mark on an exam do you immediately accuse them of cheating?

Think about what you are saying

If my child comes home with 100% mark on an exam, when he regularly comes home with 60%/70% efforts, and I saw that he did not studied the days before, I could think that he probably cheated his exam. The question is how.

Not a good comparison. Ayana has ONLY come home with 100% in her life. This WR should NOT be such a surprise given her past. She was 2 seconds off the 5K WR in May and won her debut 10K this summer by almost 30 seconds. At this point we should be asking, "What is the limit for her?"

Renato

do you think the 3rd string kenyan will pace Kamwo/tanui tomorrow ???

i estimated vivian was in 30-flat shape from her trials win at 7,000' & she improved or i was too slow by 30s !!!

tanui's win in 27'40+ worked out at for sea-level at

~ 26'25 !!!

if just he made that kind of improvement as similar to viivan, he alone woud smash the 26'17wr tomorrow !!!

Kamwo was still right-up there with 23 laps gone before the unbearable stomach pains forced him out, so we can assume he was at very worst as good as tanui if 100% healthy ( we know Kamwo is far better runner than tanui )

it is virtually certain the 2 top kenyans are in wr shape but they need the 3rd guy to sacrifice himself at 13'05 to 13'10 pace to 7 to 8k

will he be willing to do it ?

what shape do you think the kenyans are in from your contacts ?

Dhusuejeje wrote:

When can we get little "fred" tossed from these message boards? He is a complete idiot when it comes to doping. What a moron.

The 20 secs you are referring to, is that based on personal experience with your athletes?

TrackBot wrote:

VDOT for 29:17 10.0km: 74.9

Equivalent race times based on VDOT:

Marathon: 02:15:00

Half marathon: 01:04:26

15K: 00:44:50

10K: 00:29:15

5K: 00:14:04

3Mi: 00:13:33

2Mi: 00:08:44

3200m: 00:08:40

3K: 00:08:05

1Mi: 00:04:05

1600m: 00:04:03

1500m: 00:03:47

I am a bot. Info:

http://habs.sdf.org/trackbot

Love it, shows a performance that would have even beaten Paula's record which we 100% know was doped.

Renato Canova wrote:

or at African doping (I'm totally sure all the best are clean).

The fact that Tirunesh Dibaba, now at 80% of the personal possibilities of 2008, was able to improve her PB of more than 10", clearly shows that she could have the opportunity to run under 29'30" in the past, if had the will to attack the old WR.

.

A few facts. :

The silver medalist Abeylegesse at the 2008 10000m behin Dibaba was busted for doping this year.

Dibaba was in Jama Aden's hotel in Spain not very long ago this year when Spanish police raided and found an entire arsenal of PEDs including EPO and anabolic steroids. So far the IAAF has done nothing about this. In contrast Tour de France organizers have banned cycling teams from their race for similar situations.

People are right to be suspicious about what they are seeing.

I agree with you that at a personal level it is bad to think about doping because this can affect your own personal performances as a runner - you think that you cannot improve without doping.

I'm calling bullsh!t to what you said. She doped plain and simple. One day you will owe me and this forum an apology.

EPO doesn't give an advantage to athletes living at altitude? Hysterical.

DC Wonk wrote:

This race is the textbook example of an obvious outlier: record from previous doper smashed, and only suspect competitors getting within the ballpark of that time.

Would people here believe in the validity of the times if the men's 10,000 winner was in his 2nd 10,000 race ever and runs somewhere around 26:00 - 26:05??? No way.

My thoughts exactly. In more simple words, if someone in just their second 10,000 destroyed Kenenisa Bekele's world record--which no one has come anywhere close to since it was set--by 17 seconds, I think extreme skepticism would be more than justified.

I want to believe that Ayana is clean, just as I have always wanted to believe that Tirunesh Dibaba is clean, but I really had a hard time enjoying the race today. Common sense alone tells me that something is rotten in Rio. I so hope I'm wrong.

fred wrote:

Renato said:

"Somebody can say she was doped : yes, she was (also Chinese officials of that period confirmed me this doubt), but doping, in any case, can't give too much advantage in a competition of middle distance, absolutely no more than 20" (and I'm not sure of so much advantage if athletes train long time in altitude). "

Here Renato is admitting that world class runners training at altitude can gain an advantage from doping.

Thank you Renato.

When can we get Renato tossed from these message boards? He is a complete idiot when it comes to doping. What a moron.

Africans would never cheat wrote:

The African "dominance" didn't emerge until Dr. Rosa kicked things off by introducing EPO to the Kenyans, with Hermens following suit with the Ethiopians. Couple this with officials obviously allowing them to cheat and to avoid year round testing, and now the chickens hav obviously come home to roost.

American records must have seen a big jump during the same time period.

GJK wrote:

Ayana breaking the World Record is not a surprise to those of us following the sport.

Olympic Final, WR pace, negative-split. Perfect performance. And she can absolutely run faster.

Congratulations, Ayana.

What is her official blood doping plan and dosing? Can you reveal us any details? Maybe some of other athletes could take some inspiration.

realitycheck wrote:

Dibaba was in Jama Aden's hotel in Spain not very long ago this year when

She was meant to run her 10000m qualifier there before the meet was scuttled.

DC Wonk wrote:

This race is the textbook example of an obvious outlier: record from previous doper smashed, and only suspect competitors getting within the ballpark of that time.

Would people here believe in the validity of the times if the men's 10,000 winner was in his 2nd 10,000 race ever and runs somewhere around 26:00 - 26:05??? No way.

Yes, if they've already run 12:34 in the 5k, along with other "clean" runners.

Yes, I've got to call Canova on this also. It doesn't make any physiological sense.

Renato - you have a lot of credibility as a professional coach, but you tend to preach like you are a scientist or doctor. While you can say you BELIEVE many Africans are not doping because it just wouldn't give them a meaningful advantage or because you've worked with so many of them personally, quantifying with a certainty how much or little their performance would be impacted is just ludicrous. If you haven't noticed you aren't doing a good job of convincing people that these athletes are clean. Moreover, that it appears you actually believe what you say is even more troubling. You keep lecturing us on this topic and yet every few months there is another African doping scandal. The undeniable truth: running is the most popular sport for Kenyans and Ethiopians; it draws their top talent; $10,000 goes a very long way for these athletes. This makes running super competitive in their countries. Couple that with the relaxed doping controls and testing plus the easy ability to stay under the radar and this all results in much bigger incentives for east Africans to cheat. Even if we assumed, as you say that it didn't improve their performances, they will still cheat just out of hope that it will help them. I would think this would be a pretty simple conclusion to reach.

There exists no possibility that Africans would be doping. I must know it from the first hand, because I'm injecting them every day.