Serial Cheater at Marine Corps Marathon?

Sometingwong wrote:

Wejo,

Don't you have any pull as a former race winner get all of this guys suspect times looked at and/or taken off the board? Maybe nothing can be done at this point, I don't know.

I know plenty of people on here really want that 2014 result wiped, since he used it to get into 2016 Boston Marathon.

Either way, the BAA will be getting an email tomorrow morning from me with the facts as they stand, including screenshots and letting them know of the 2015 disqualification. While the 2014 result may still be up, they will hopefully see the pattern of behavior and do something about it.

I would like to hear his side of the allegations (are they considered allegations anymore if the race dq'd you from the 2015 race, after being alerted?).

If you notify Boston they will definitely look into it.

That's a fact.

Between course cutting, wearing headphones, littering gu packets, covering/sharing/selling/faking bibs, lying about age (no one ever checks), pushing, shoving, carrying dogs (almost), illegal pacers, costumes, etc. I would say probably less than 30% of marathon finishers are technically legal.

...

Ladies and gentlemen, I'll be brief. The issue here is not whether some of us marathoners broke a few rules, or took a few liberties with our female party guests—we did. [winks at Flagpole] But you can't hold a whole sport responsible for the behavior of a few, sick perverted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole athletic system? And if the whole athletic system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational and sporting institutions in general? I put it to you, Rojo: isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do what you you want to us, but I for one am not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!

If Trump was in charge of Letsrun this would never happen!!!!

Otterr wrote:

Ladies and gentlemen, I'll be brief. The issue here is not whether some of us marathoners broke a few rules, or took a few liberties with our female party guests—we did. [winks at Flagpole] But you can't hold a whole sport responsible for the behavior of a few, sick perverted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole athletic system? And if the whole athletic system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational and sporting institutions in general? I put it to you, Rojo: isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do what you you want to us, but I for one am not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!

If Trump was in charge of Letsrun this would never happen!!!!

It's going to be a BEAUTIFUL wall, and I'm not talking about mile 20...

Sad wrote:

Between course cutting, wearing headphones, littering gu packets, covering/sharing/selling/faking bibs, lying about age (no one ever checks), pushing, shoving, carrying dogs (almost), illegal pacers, costumes, etc. I would say probably less than 30% of marathon finishers are technically legal.

...

Littering would knock out all elites.

I am starting to think I may have won Boston last year - there were only 50% of finishers ahead of me and ... Yes I think the only guy ahead of me was Rossi now if McKeever would just tip the domino over for me ... I want my laurel and I want it now

Give me my laurel wreath now wrote:

Sad wrote:

Between course cutting, wearing headphones, littering gu packets, covering/sharing/selling/faking bibs, lying about age (no one ever checks), pushing, shoving, carrying dogs (almost), illegal pacers, costumes, etc. I would say probably less than 30% of marathon finishers are technically legal.

...

Littering would knock out all elites.

I am starting to think I may have won Boston last year - there were only 50% of finishers ahead of me and ... Yes I think the only guy ahead of me was Rossi now if McKeever would just tip the domino over for me ... I want my laurel and I want it now

Actually even though I did not run Boston officially I paced a guy in training that should have won Boston if all the technical rules were applied, he would have beat you. I was going to qualify with him until my elbow had unprecedented injuries, from an old tennis injury when I showed Sampras that I could serve over 200 mph but not with enough accuracy - the ball came back off the fence and hit me at about 170 mph.

Anyway with the old elbow injury flaring up I could not run but just paced him. While he was running Boston I paced him on the treadmill and kept in touch by phone. At the finish I said we gotta go and I went but he had nothing left. So I feel like I won Boston. Now I would never wear a shirt or anything or say my name should benign a trophy. But in my mind I am something of a legend. And I feel awkward talking so much about myself but it is for a good cause of integrity in running.

Wow. I feel like I just wrote a book.

elephino wrote:

Citizen Runner wrote: a split time 10% faster than the next fastest split or some such. Out of the full field (~3500 runners) there was something on the order of 100 finishers who had clearly cut the course.

10%? I'm a slow marathoner and I'm sure I've had splits in a marathon that differed by 10% from one to the next. Bonking, bathroom stops, once I stopped at a medical tent for several minutes to repair blisters. One race a faster friend ran with me for the first 3/4 and then took off at his normal race pace for the last part so his splits would have been very suspicious.

The guy in this thread definitely cheated, but with a threshold of only 10% you'd need further evidence to conclude cheating.

"10% faster than the next fastest split" isn't the same thing as "10% from one to the next". Regardless I agree that there are pitfalls to looking for course cutting via splits alone, particularly on a course with infrequent timing mats.

This was done a few years ago, but as I recall the anomalous splits in this case all occurred on an out-and-back section so course cutters would have missed a timing mat at the turn around as well. Thus the criteria in this particular case was more like improbable split over a race segment where they missed registering on a timing mat.

Citizen Runner wrote:

Some years ago, a guy I knew was accused of course cutting a marathon (Las Vegas). Looking into it, I was able to pull the splits from the entire field and wrote a little program to look for anomalous splits. As I recall, the algorithm was looking for a split time 10% faster than the next fastest split or some such. Out of the full field (~3500 runners) there was something on the order of 100 finishers who had clearly cut the course. That course had a few miles of out-and-back late in the race, so it was particularly easy to take a shortcut and may not be representative. Almost all anomalous splits were for back markers, though there were a few who were in BQ range.

Wow so if 100 cut the course on a 3,500 field imagine the number if you add up all the marathons throughout the year. I'm starting to think 40-50% of Boston marathoners may not legitimately belong there. I often wondered why looking at the Boston results so many slow finish times when you need to be so much faster to qualify. Things are all starting to make sense. Wow.

Email sent to BAA. Will keep the thread updated on when (if) I hear something.

Has anyone sent an email to the reporters at the Troy Messenger to check into his story? I mean, that only seems like good journalism to, you know, check facts.

Sherlock wrote:

I actually think it would be better to have not outed him and followed him next year at MCM with a gopro. Video the cut on the 25k and 30k mats and then put the video up on YouTube.

The penalty of a dq is not a deterrent to these egos there needs to be a fear of getting caught.

I like it. Unfortunately that ship has sailed forever here, but can you just imagine sitting on that video clip while this thread plays out?

I'd also seriously love to see one of these a$$holes get outed in an unimpeachable way...

This is Pete Sampras' entire professional record. He never attended college, becoming a pro at age 16 in 1988.

http://www.tennisabstract.com/cgi-bin/player.cgi?p=PeteSampras&f=ACareerqq

I could be wrong but I don't see Dr Price, IT in there. Someone else please double check. It was clearly stated in the messenger article he was briefly a professional tennis player who's career highlight was the Sampras match.

Greg Chrisman wrote:

This is Pete Sampras' entire professional record. He never attended college, becoming a pro at age 16 in 1988.

http://www.tennisabstract.com/cgi-bin/player.cgi?p=PeteSampras&f=ACareerqq

I could be wrong but I don't see Dr Price, IT in there. Someone else please double check. It was clearly stated in the messenger article he was briefly a professional tennis player who's career highlight was the Sampras match.

Maybe he went briefly by the name of Ramesh Krishnan.

blitzdude wrote:

Citizen Runner wrote:

. . . Almost all anomalous splits were for back markers, though there were a few who were in BQ range.

. . . I'm starting to think 40-50% of Boston marathoners may not legitimately belong there. . .

I haven't seen any rational basis indicating that magnitude of cheaters. The case I looked at had a few percent course cutting and they were nearly all at the back of the pack. These are probably people in over their heads who simply wanted to be done with it. I think serial cheaters are rare animals which makes them the more interesting case.

Citizen Runner wrote:

blitzdude wrote:

. . . I'm starting to think 40-50% of Boston marathoners may not legitimately belong there. . .

I haven't seen any rational basis indicating that magnitude of cheaters. The case I looked at had a few percent course cutting and they were nearly all at the back of the pack. These are probably people in over their heads who simply wanted to be done with it. I think serial cheaters are rare animals which makes them the more interesting case.

Well that is somewhat of a relief. As someone who is consistently busting their tail still attempting to BQ this is disheartening to say the least. I sure hope you are right.

So that jean Marmoreo that led the 200+- women to shortcut 4 miles off the Marine Course in 2005. Guess what: her 2005 MCM result still is in the results, despite acknowledge 4 mile shortcut. Her 2004 result stands despite missed mat. Then she comes back in 2007 and wins first in her age group and goes on to her self-promotion tour of Boston as a geezer.

Why wouldn't people cheat when there is no penalty to deter?

Ain't No Justice wrote:

Why wouldn't people cheat when there is no penalty to deter?

This falls on the RDs. Maybe they don't want to bother making sure they don't sign up year after year, ie it's too much work? Maybe they are that hungry for money and hope that a 1 year DQ from the results is enough to scare them? I don't know.

So Troy has been in computer security for almost 2 decades as of march 2014:

http://www.andalusiastarnews.com/2014/03/06/online-confessions-cause-concern/

and now as of November 2015 he has been in the industry over 25 years:

http://www.alabamanews.net/home/top-stories/Secret-Apps--Whats-On-Your-Childs-Phone-342741142.html

nitpick wrote:

So Troy has been in computer security for almost 2 decades as of march 2014:

http://www.andalusiastarnews.com/2014/03/06/online-confessions-cause-concern/

and now as of November 2015 he has been in the industry over 25 years:

http://www.alabamanews.net/home/top-stories/Secret-Apps--Whats-On-Your-Childs-Phone-342741142.html

So, since he was 16. Makes sense if, like I postulated before, he graduated college by age 15, maybe even got his Harvard MA and secret doctorate by then.