Why isn't Igloi training used more often today?

Orville,

You also probably remember his scolding: "my grandmother could run faster!"

Reid Harter

jay double-you,

I don't have my article handy, but if I recall correctly, I say a lot of what he did was his personality. Still some of the elements like cadence and race pace training you see used successfully, and yes those ideas have evolved over time.

Reid Harter

What were Igloi's ideas on cadence, simply to keep a high cadence?

is there anything Lydiard didn't take the credit for?

Here is a new link. With some other igloi articles. Let me know if it works.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6VN-uvNLD85NGNqOFVhNGYxdjA&usp=sharing

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

Socal Cush,

I ran for Joe Douglas as well, and I consider him a great coach as well. In 1974, my best year,one evening Joe had me do a 30 minute tempo run followed by 4 sets of 10 x 440 at good speed with a 220 jog rest, followed by another 20 minute tempo run. And that was the afternoon workout, there was another 8 miles of other assorted runs earlier in the morning.

I typically ran the track work with Igloi and Joe in Addidas Tokyo '64s...kangaroo hyde, very little support, very light.

Interestingly, Joe coached before teaching math at Westchester High School, and after the same. I worked full time at Northrop Aircraft Corporation.

At that time none of us were spoiled.

A different time, I miss it.

Reid Harter

10 x 400 with 200 float. That's 6km.

4 sets, that's 24km.

30 min tempo before and 20 after - that's 50 at tempo, say 13-14km.

So all up, that's 38km of running plus WU and CD.

And 13km of running in the morning.

That's high-50s kms in one day, at least 30km of it at decent intensity.

What about long run day?

That averages out at about 400km a week, or 250 miles a week.

Karma Police,

Yes that is correct for the hard day mileage.. We are talking running with Joe Douglas and the Santa Monica Track Club here. I was approaching 150 miles a week in peak volume. The easy days, usually Tuesday, Friday, and Sunday (one session) were in the 12-16 mile range. You would have to check with Joe because he probably has the exact training log which I do not.

In the months following that training I won the AAU 30 Kilometer Championship with a 1:35:30 or 5:08 a mile. At that time it was a record for loop courses. The next month I was 13th at the Boston Marathon. Those were my best performances.

Reid Harter

J.R.,

Igloi never gave explaination of the training. The article gives more detail if you can pull it up. However, you had the paces of Fresh, Good, Hard, Very Hard and All-Out. In the Fresh, and Good you had a Swing and Speed cadence. Speed shorter stride and Swing longer stride. So, in typical training you were running a variety of speeds and cadences.

Reid Harter

SMTC,

Thank for doing that. I hope the article adds more to the discussion.

Reid Harter

To answer the question, I'd say that general lack of information is the main reason.All interval training all the time got a bad rap, due to the difficulty of getting it right, and the ease with which you can get it wrong.

Longshanks wrote:

With the incredible results that Bob Schul and others had using this training method, curious why it is not widely used today?

This article looks like a stain on your resume. You come across like the hammer that can only describe the screw as a nail.I don't see anything in this interview that connects Antonio's description of his training (in terms of time and space) to Lydiard training, or for that matter to Igloi's training (you failed to describe what Igloi training is, beyond interval based, and misunderstood), yet somehow you concluded in your introduction, that it "harkens to Igloi" with "shades of Lydiard". How does it "harken to Igloi" and what "shades of Lydiard" did you see?The only thing Antonio actually said about Igloi reinforces what Steve Magness said: it is often misunderstood. I was interested to see you follow up with more meaningful questions that actually "dig a little deeper", but instead you changed the subject to Antonio's racing as a master.

Athletics Illustrated wrote:

My apologies for the self-promotion, but here it is, see how sane he comes across? Amazing:

http://athleticsillustrated.com/interviews/cabral-antonio/

You may have misunderstood, rekrunner. This is a thread about Igloi, not other coaches.

Another great source looking at training in this manner is what Jacqueline Hansen provides on her web site.

8467 wrote:

running historian wrote:

First you say that HRE cannot demonstrate with facts that Lydiard training is particularly effective. Then you use Lorraine Moller, who used Lydiard-based training and improved from 33rd in the 1988 Seoul Olympics marathon to 3rd in the 1992 Barcelona Olympics marathon (at the age of 39), as a case study of the non-effectiveness of Lydiard training.

You could have hardly picked a worse example to justify your opinion that Lydiard had a poor training methodology.

António, responde lá a esta.

Don't ignore someone who shows you how wrong you are.

Porque não respondes, António?

You are an idiot.

You are right -- my apologies.

lease wrote:

You may have misunderstood, rekrunner. This is a thread about Igloi, not other coaches.

SMTC wrote:

Here is a new link. With some other igloi articles. Let me know if it works.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6VN-uvNLD85NGNqOFVhNGYxdjA&usp=sharing

thanks so much for posting this. i'd never seen any of this, though i lived virtually everything joe wrote. some of it he would state explicitly to his athletes, some i must have intuited over time. interesting to also read magness' take on igloi--so true about misinterpretations of intervals. my 36 reps of 200s/250s physiologically was probably more akin to a threshold run (joe called it speed stamina) than a real speed workout, yet people get caught up in the fact that the reps were so short that it must be "speed" in its traditional sense.

also interesting to me is how joe diverged from igloi--probably not from a purpose standpoint, but maybe from how it was executed. did igoi do long tempo/fresh runs of 8-16 miles (for 800/1500 guys)? for the record, i think joe underestimates his fresh pace at 40%, and i think one of the igoi articles states it closer to 60%. sometimes i think it was higher than both these estimates, but maybe i was going harder than i should have...

That's where my understanding of the Bob Schul training differs from Igoi, is that lack of tempo in the former. I still have not made up my mind if I miss it.

SMTC wrote:

Here is a new link. With some other igloi articles. Let me know if it works.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6VN-uvNLD85NGNqOFVhNGYxdjA&usp=sharing

Excellent. Thanks.

Thanks.

It downloaded to my computer, but won't print.

Any suggestions?