DEAR VIN LANANNA: Here are the reasons to have regionals

But you can restructure the entire schedule so as not to overrace the good athletes. Essentially, coaches have to have their athletes ready to do well at their conference meet. Add in regionals (a la cross country) and the nationals, then build the rest of the schedule as you like to satisfy yourself.

Here's how the top 10 (or at least those that entered- I had copied the top 10 in each event from the season's best list) did as far as qualifying, in the 800 through 10k.

800- 9 of the top 10 made it

1500- 6 of the 7 (3 guys with top-10 times didn't run)

steeple- 7 of 9

5k- 4/4

10k- 5/10

So overall, 31 of 40. Or, if you had a top 10 time, and ran that event, 77.5% chance you were going to nationals. I thought it would be higher, but I'm guessing a hot 10k blew some guys up. Whether or not a regional is better than descending order list, who knows, but in the distance races it basically changed under 1/4 of the field.

Really? Restructure the schedule to not overrace them but add two races in between conferences and nationals.

You left out USATF and the opportunity to run a qualifying time for USATF which would have to be run before regionals since you can't ensure a fast race at regionals or NCAA's.

You think using a descending order list will create more fans at nationals?? Going to straight descending order list would be terrible for tv ratings and ticket sales at nationals. With a descending order list, the championships will be dominated by BCS schools while smaller schools won't be sending anybody. As the first ever qualifier from my university, there will be a large amount of people following nationals now that otherwise wouldn't have. Also, more money will be spent by teams chasing times all across the country then is spent on regionals. The allure of the NCAA basketball tournament is the fact that everybody has a chance to win. Being an underdog attracts fans. I know my school doesn't have the budget to send me across the country to California to get me into the time trials yet I was able to go into regionals as the 48th qualifier and EARN a spot to nationals because I can RACE, not time trial.

So Wheating has to run 4 extra races so you can have a chance to compete as the 48th qualifier and that is going to sell more tickets and get better TV ratings.

Do I have that right?

Track will never have the allure of the NCAA basketball tournament.

In Track everyone has a chance to win with the descending order system.

First, run fast. You don't have to fly around the country to do that. There is no committee judging your performance or your shedule. The clock is completely objective no matter what school you go to.

If you can race as you say then go race some fast people, beat them and then you will have the time you need to get in.

So maybe he should just start the season a couple weeks later?? Is it really that big of a deal? 4 races in 3 days is not going to hurt him at all.. especially when the first 2 were modest efforts for him. If he was that worried about getting injured or being tired he would have just sat and kicked in to finish 3rd-5th in his heat instead of running a 1:46 and 3:37.

I think there may have been 1 person within a 10 hr drive of my university where somebody went faster then 3:43 which is what it would take to qualify with a descending order list. There was only 1 weekend where the weather was above 55 degrees before the weekend of conferences (5/15). So yes, I would have to fly somewhere to run a fast time.

I did race some fast people.. at the regional meet.. and beat out 36 of them that had a faster PR then me to earn a spot at nationals

dd wrote:

Here's how the top 10 (or at least those that entered- I had copied the top 10 in each event from the season's best list) did as far as qualifying, in the 800 through 10k.

800- 9 of the top 10 made it

1500- 6 of the 7 (3 guys with top-10 times didn't run)

steeple- 7 of 9

5k- 4/4

10k- 5/10

So overall, 31 of 40. Or, if you had a top 10 time, and ran that event, 77.5% chance you were going to nationals. I thought it would be higher, but I'm guessing a hot 10k blew some guys up. Whether or not a regional is better than descending order list, who knows, but in the distance races it basically changed under 1/4 of the field.

OK, two can play at that game.

800- 19 of 24

1500 - 12 of 24

steeple - 16 of 24

5000 - 16 of 24

10000 - 10 of 24

That's only 73 out of 120. That's only 61%

Lets' look at probable scorers who would NOT be at nationals under a descending order system (top 24).

800 - none

1500 - Jack Bolas (29th)

steeple - Stephen Finley (45th)

5000 - Sam Chelenga (29th)

10000 - John Kosgei (44th)

Give me races and athletes who can race. I can think of no argument more persuasive than this: Billy Mills. Tokyo 1964.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOj0zjPzg-c

All the best,

Giles

It was a ways back, so you may not have seen it, but the reason I looked at top 10 was that I was making the point that those who are really in the mix for podium spots will make it in either system. Most people (other than the competitors) don't care that much about the field after the scoring places, or frankly even past top 3. I can remember the top 3 at last year's 10k; I have no clue, and don't really care, who was 10th. So yes, as you go further down the list, there will be more variability. Shocking.

As far as your second point, you really think that Chelanga couldn't run a top 24 time in the 5k, if he hadn't known that he would easily advance at the regional? The reason he had the 29th seed was that he had no reason to get a faster one. If you care to argue he couldn't do that, be my guest.

Oh you know wrote:

I did race some fast people.. at the regional meet.. and beat out 36 of them that had a faster PR then me to earn a spot at nationals

Congratulations, good luck at nationals.

I don't want to take away from your efforts and accomplishments.

And the idea is not that I think that those that run the 13-24 fastest times in the country are really more deserving to be in Nationals than those that finish 7-12 in their region.

I just don't think the perceived benefits out weigh the obvious costs.

The college system is too hard on the elites which is why you see some red-shirt in Olympic years.

Congrats on making Nationals.

Nick Symmonds and/or Leo Manzano look foward to facing a worn out Wheating at USATF.

You are talking about coaches' decisions. Any "elite" may be held out of any race or meet desired. No one is forcing them to run dual meets, relay carnivals, large invitationals nor doing doubles at conferences.

We are asking that if someone wants to run in the NCAA, that they go through a two step qualifying procedure: 1. get a to 48 mark for one's region and 2. place in the top 12 at the regional meet.

How elite is someone if that is too great a burden?

OP on Lananna and here we are 174 posts later. Anyone think that Lananna isn't the face of collegiate track and field in America? I say, let him talk, whine, ask why?, mumble, pontificate, whatever...if he is the lightning rod, then let's recognize it and follow him so that this sport can begin to grow again.

I agree with toro here, a guy like Wheating does NOT need to race 4 extra races close to NCAA's just to prove what he has already proved. As someone who was once a decent runner and is now simply a fan and spectator, we are moved to watch the top runners and watch them run well. We are not really moved by the also rans. I was an also ran so I understand wanting to get to NCAA's even when you will not be a factor there. Hell when I ran it was simply a decending order list and had there been a regional system I very well might have made more NCAA championships, but that doesn't change my mind as a fan that I'd much rather see epic races between wheating and andrews and wheating and centro and lee on the freshest legs they can have rather than tired or injured legs.

Wheating and centro were both injured by NCAA's last year. Ulrey was sick. That took away from the finals. Be nice if that could be avoided, from a fans perspective. Like I said, fans want to see fast races and big things happen. Only the also rans and their circle of family and friends is concerned with guys back in the pack whether they are in or out of NCAA's. Just telling it like it is.

Also, let's have the fox run the hen house.

...If you can race as you say then go race some fast people, beat them and then you will have the time you need to get in.

You just stated the problem...a time shouldn't get you in. A PLACE should get you in.

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